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Piperine as an enhancer? Options
 
dunmar
#1 Posted : 5/21/2014 10:00:41 PM
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SWIM has been reading that Piperine (The active ingredient in black pepper) can be used to increase or enhance the effects of other substances like Curcumin (another MAO inhibitor) and MDMA.

SWIM has also read "Piperine showed an inhibitory effect against MAO-A (IC50 value: 20.9 microM) and MAO-B (IC50 value: 7.0 microM)." from piperine as an MAOI and that "Piperine can increase the bioavailability of substances by up to 2000 percent. So its worth a shot." from The piperine secret to getting off your chops.

So SWIMS question is can Piperine be used to enhance Changa or DMT?
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Infectedstyle
#2 Posted : 5/22/2014 12:20:15 AM
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A question that comes to mind is, why?

Piperine blocks some enzymes. On the Wikipedia,Looking at those enzymes seems that inhibition of CYP3A4 is mainly responsible for this bioavailability of drugs. That and P-glycoprotein
might exhibit an interesting interaction with Harmalas+DMT.

"CYP3A4 is also inhibited by Grape juice and causes dangerous interaction with common antipsychotics"
If it's main effect comes from this Enzyme then Grapejuice is a more effective inhibitor for this Enzyme and this can easily be tested. Anyone have some experience with Grapejuice here? Pleased

That it has MAO-inhibiting properties and MDMA-enhancing ones at that are interesting. But my knowledge does not go far into the biological territory. I still wonder what the mechanism is how any substance can excert MAO-B inhibitory effects in the first place.
 
dunmar
#3 Posted : 5/22/2014 1:03:39 AM
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SWIM is merely interested in the possibilities of anything that can enhance or alter in some "interesting" way the experiences and/or chemistry of DMT etc...

If it does enhance DMT or Changa then SWIM would be very interested into how, and why, Thank you very much for bringing up CYP3A4 and P-glycoprotein i was not yet aware of these i will have to read into them.
2000 B.C. - Here, eat this root.
1000 A.D. - That root is heathen. Here, say this prayer.
1850 A.D. - That prayer is superstition. Here, drink this potion.
1940 A.D. - That potion is snake oil. Here, swallow this pill.
1985 A.D. - That pill is ineffective. Here, take this antibiotic.
2000 A.D. - That antibiotic is artificial. Here, eat this root
 
downwardsfromzero
#4 Posted : 5/22/2014 9:18:46 AM

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Infectedstyle wrote:
"CYP3A4 is also inhibited by Grape juice and causes dangerous interaction with common antipsychotics"
If it's main effect comes from this Enzyme then Grapejuice is a more effective inhibitor for this Enzyme and this can easily be tested. Anyone have some experience with Grapejuice here? Pleased

NB (kids) It's grapefruit juice that's the CYP3A4 inhibitor. Grape juice, I think not.

Quote:
That it has MAO-inhibiting properties and MDMA-enhancing ones at that are interesting. But my knowledge does not go far into the biological territory. I still wonder what the mechanism is how any substance can excert MAO-B inhibitory effects in the first place.

This varies, depending on the substance doing the inhibiting. With competitive inhibition, the molecule fits into the MAO enzyme and whether it gets metabolised or not, it effectively takes up the place that would be oxidising some other molecule, said other molecule thereby being left to survive long enough to exert its effect (e.g. psychoactivity, cardiovascular mayhem etc.)

With irreversible inhibitors they bind to the active site of the MAO enzyme, putting it permanently out of action until new enzyme gets made by the body.

Note that high doses of pepper (Piper nigrum) can cause heart palpitations.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
IANS
#5 Posted : 5/22/2014 10:00:21 AM
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I don't feel as this is a hijack, but an extension of the topic: Any points of view about nutmeg/myristicin??

Nutmeg Effects - wikipedia:

In its freshly ground form (from whole nutmegs), nutmeg contains myristicin, a monoamine oxidase inhibitor and psychoactive substance. Myristicin poisoning can induce convulsions, palpitations, nausea, eventual dehydration, and generalized body pain.[15] It is also reputed to be a strong deliriant.[16]
I Am Not Someone Who Isn't Me!
 
Pile of cats
#6 Posted : 5/22/2014 8:44:59 PM

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Back when I lived in England I was able to get pure dxm powder and I would always drink 1L of grapefruit juice before dosing and it made a huge difference to the trip, Piperine inhibits the same enzyme responsible for that? Next time I'm in England I'm going to have to give that a test if that's the case.
 
Cognitive Heart
#7 Posted : 5/23/2014 12:51:11 AM

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Mixing black pepper with turmeric is the practice, yes. This is of good value to me and to of overall health imo-e. You're correct. The piperine releases the compounds to some degree. Very precise action on bio-availability. Oxidation has a role in this biological activity.

Curcumin being a light MAO.. long term benefits on humans are astoundingly strong.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=curcumin

It would be subject to question pure piperine in combination with changa.
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Infectedstyle
#8 Posted : 5/23/2014 3:15:32 AM
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Ow. So Curcumin is the active ingrediënt in Ginseng! Thats awesome. I had a concept in my head that it was some green fluffy substance extracted from Cumcumber. lol

Going to have to try mixing both. I heared that Ginseng is slightly psychoactive in it's own right when prepared properly. Would you agree? Someone mentioned it makes you all tingly and sensitive to touch.

@IANS, Well.. Nutmeg contains a precursor to MDMA and Piperine's Moleculair structure looks very similar to this precursor to MDMA (they both looks like frogs! Very happy) So in my logic, I reckon both spices to have potential as psychoactives/psychedelics even.
 
Synkromystic
#9 Posted : 5/23/2014 5:24:20 AM

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Curcumin is the active ingredient in Turmeric
 
Infectedstyle
#10 Posted : 5/23/2014 1:07:27 PM
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Err. Yah. Darn english names. Turmeric; Gember family. Not Ginseng. I was confused. But still very interesting.
 
downwardsfromzero
#11 Posted : 5/25/2014 3:52:04 AM

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Infectedstyle wrote:
Err. Yah. Darn english names. Turmeric; Gember family. Not Ginseng. I was confused. But still very interesting.

Indeed:
ginseng - Araliaceae (the ivy family)
turmeric - Zingiberaceae (the ginger family)
ginger/ginseng - who could blame you?

IANS wrote:
I don't feel as this is a hijack, but an extension of the topic: Any points of view about nutmeg/myristicin??

Nutmeg Effects - wikipedia:

In its freshly ground form (from whole nutmegs), nutmeg contains myristicin, a monoamine oxidase inhibitor and psychoactive substance. Myristicin poisoning can induce convulsions, palpitations, nausea, eventual dehydration, and generalized body pain.[15] It is also reputed to be a strong deliriant.

There are several other threads about nutmeg, e.g. Space Booze! Space Paste EtOH Extraction SUCCESS!

As it happens, I made some nutmeg tincture the other day. It was quite pleasant and without any of the above negative side effects. My dose was sensibly modest, though.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Cognitive Heart
#12 Posted : 4/25/2015 8:10:06 PM

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[BUMP]

I don't find turmeric by itself to be even mild.. maybe some slight analgesic effect but a combination of spices / oils helps bring turmerics effect out. Definitely a grounded feeling.. once I had this all-encompassing mild glow. Cool
'What's going to happen?' 'Something wonderful.'

Skip the manual, now, where's the master switch?

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Jees
#13 Posted : 4/26/2015 5:36:19 PM

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While this thread is bumped:
Potential for extreme potentiation...
There are serious warnings in there.
 
saulsilver
#14 Posted : 4/26/2015 6:27:30 PM

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Black pepper tea is extremely potent as an enhancer, but it's not piperine, it's almost piperidine.

Black pepper tea is a CYP2D6 inhibitor, and also with nutmeg,sass,calamo and I think every PEA's or drug that is metabolized by that enzime is good.

But I mind you, it's potent stuff. One time a take half mace and half nutmeg with black pepper tea, coffee and guaranà, was superb! The euphoria was far away from mace or nutmeg alone.

Black pepper tea is easy to make, and with nutmeg is always good. I don't know with the tryptamines.
 
Auxin
#15 Posted : 4/28/2015 10:09:41 PM

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jees, thats a membership-only forum [and apparently they delete inactive members Wut? ]
could you provide a summary for non-members?
 
Jees
#16 Posted : 4/29/2015 12:12:21 AM

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I hope nobody minds quoting.
The most interesting bits:
First quote originated in kambo forum
Quote:
"Is it your understanding that Bioperine/Piperine would potentiate Ayahuasca and/or Iboga?"

yes the procedure is different though (and it is more safe) DO ME A FAVOR AND DO NOT TRY THIS UNTIL TOMORROW WHEN I FULLY EXPLAIN HOW TO INDUCE MAO A AND OR B

what your looking for is piperidine made from putting black pepper into a coffee filter and sealing it with a twist tie and pouring boiling water into a cup with this teabag and i would imagine within 15 minutes it should contain a fair amount of piperidine this is different from the compounds you refer to "Bioperine/Piperine", i think piperidine may also be made from taking the same kind of coffee filter tea bag and putting it in 99% IPA rubbing alcohol (with ZERO denaturalants) and shaking daily for 1-2 weeks then evaporating the IPA (i think in the fridge is best) and this should yield piperidine crystals (i could be wrong this could be the method of producing the compounds you are referring to).

from what i recall:
piperidine = NOT the solids
piperine = YES the solids

piperidine is the one you want for cycling.

now. KP because you are a mighty warrior i have no fear helping you pry your left hand off the lid of the box (:

i cannot speak of iboga (i will research the chemical structure of it and its metabolites tomorrow possibly and get back to you)

but yes if you take pepper tea filtered of solids 1 hour and again 5 minutes before ayahuasca you can produce a WEEK OR MORE long ayahuasca journey this WILL NOT be with the gentle carrying over into the next couple days, this will be terrifying and HORRORS THAT CANNOT BE THOUGHT UP. it takes more than black pepper tea filtered of solids, it is very late at night i promise to finish filling this in first thing tomorrow, you could use the method i posted:

"
timing goes like this:
hh:mm
00:00 L-lysine 1-2 gram with cup water (or wait till 00:15 and use pepper tea without solids instead of L-lysine)
00:45 20 drops each star anise extract and almond extract (both non artificial) and a 100mg caffeine tablet with tiny sip water
01:00 ingest desired compound
01:15 be ready, this is not for the beginners, regardless of compound used

if you want a shorter experience that is more visual and less potent use lecithin in place of L-lysine or pepper tea this is a very good idea for beginners in this type of experience, it lasts dramatically shorter and is much easier to get used to before jumping into a multi day experience."

also if your using aya you can take the caffeine tablet and crack into into 1/4th and only take a quarter of it, or remove it altogether and use an extra 10-20 drops of the 2 extracts each. i am not entirely certain of how strongly you may feel stimulated combining caffeine with aya even if beforehand. it may be dangerous is why i suggest against. i have many MAOI but not actual aya vine to test the safety personally, i think somebody at herbsmax may have tested it beforehand and got extreme blood pressure.

please try this part in bold before you use try it with pepper tea or L-lysine PLEASE



now it is possible to use this method to do a smaller dose and have it last for very long with a much smaller potency, and when you get comfortable with small potency long lasting versions, then i would advise you very gently bump the dose ever so slightly.


Quote:
... We don't want anyone dying of electrolyte loss or even worse, some other unintended consequence of pepper poisoning (piperidine poisoning). Remember, Ayahuasca is under very strict scrutiny these days. If someone gets hurt or dies in such experimentation and it is tied to Ayahuasca in any way, this endangers the whole community.

Consider the danger of piperidine poisoning: people need to be made aware that piperidine is closely related to the toxic principal in hemlock, so people would need to be quite well versed so as not to make a fatal mistake in confusing piperidine with piperine. Piperine is the safe alkaloid; piperidine is a toxin related to coniine in hemlock, the tea of which was used to put Socrates to death:
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piperidine

Furthermore, who can predict the consequences of a toxin such as piperidine interacting with harmine? Shocked Recall how toxic nicotine is to the body, and with harmine, even more so, especially when added to a brew.

This just doesn't sound advisable. It just doesn't sound safe to be playing with hemlock-like toxins.


wrote:
For those science fans, it might be of interest to you to know that piperidine functions in much the same way as the famous Amazonian curare used in poison darts. Both poisons (curare and piperidine) block respiration by paralyzing the lungs, but what is fascinating is that the paralysis is only temporary. This means that if an affected person is kept breathing through artificial respiration until the pulmonary paralysis wears off, they can recover completely!
 
 
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