Hey Bancopuma,

I just saw in your other post that you've moved to a new part of the world (I can't reply as new member) - I'm going to make a leap and guess that's the home counties area from your location? If so, I'm returning there soon! My location currently says London. It's actually Newcastle. Where have you moved from?

Hey dude, a few months back I moved from the Midlands to somewhere way, way north of there, the kind of north that makes Newcastle look positively south by comparison.

Haha - excellent stuff! Scotland, or did you leave the UK all together and hit Norway? Glad to see on your other post that you landed on your feet well - sounds like good times all round for you and your new friends!

As someone who was prescribed a dangerous cocktail of pharmaceutical tropanes, my experience with these chemicals has been limited and awful.
This is the drug: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnatal

This drug was not for me, medically or recreationally. It didn't even work for the medical application they gave it to me. I experienced total mindlessness, lost hours, I was there but wasn't. It was very strange, disorienting, and over all not entertaining. This to me is one of those drugs where your conversations start and end at "I'm so f***ked up dude"

That is just my own opinion, and I know we shouldn't judge other chemicals, and I tried them open minded (of course for medical reasons) and I hated it. Thats just me.

No offence to those who may like it, it just wasn't for me. You should be fairly aware of the dangers of it however.

That being said they are some extremely beautiful plants, I have some Brugmensia in my yard.

Haha, yes Scotland indeed, somewhere on the East coast known for its oil, although that ain't what I'm here for. Has been great though and have met some great people, and a local Nexian introduced me to the psychedelic music scene here which was a really positive development for a number of reasons. Thanks for the good vibes

On the scopolamine tangent, a good few years ago now I brewed up and got intoxicated on some Brugmansia flower tea. I had dabbled with Datura before a few times but had always massively erred on the side of caution regarding dosage, and had only succeeded in inducing very vivid dreams at times (amazing at the time but very hard to remember or bring much back from).

So one day I brewed some tea, and only steeped a flower or two briefly, before removing all the plant material 9I had heard this was the "safest" way of using what is potentially a very dangerous plant, as ingesting whole plant material makes dosing even riskier and harder to gauge. My uni house mates and close friends at the time were curious and wished to join. I explained the risks and the power and toxicity of these particular as clearly as I could but they wished to join me, and so they did. These friends had decided to experiment with psychedelics after encountering me, and we had shared some really great LSD, mushroom and San Pedro experiences before this. They were both economics students, and it has been really interesting to see how their experiences have influenced their life paths.

Anyway, we each drank a cup of the bitter tea. Half an hour later I/we started to feel drunk. I had never experienced this before when experimenting with these plants and so figured I was in for a ride. My balance and co-ordination were pretty awful, and I started to feel pretty lethargic and very tired. I stumbled to the toilet and was intrigued to see the floor of the bathroom crawling, very tryptamine-esque, and this surprised me knowing I was dealing with a deliriant, yet at that point I had full knowledge that the Brugmansia was responsible for the visual distortions. I could feel this energy, like electricity running up and down my body...not unpleasant, but dirty in some way.

We all suddenly felt really tired and not very sociable and decided to turn in and "go to sleep". Following this, in bed in the dark, I sunk into a state where the line between waking and dreaming had been annihilated. I would also "wake up" with no idea where I was for brief episodes. I had many dreams, and one very vivid experience of one of my housemates sitting on the end of the bed trying to talk to me. What he was saying was just below my range of hearing which made the communication pretty frustrating. One of my friends had a very vivid dream of going downstairs and opening a fridge to experience a tsunami of pasta erupt out of it.

I can remember very little of what went on, and this applies to right after the experience as well as during it. These Solanaceous plants completely pull the carpet from under your feet, it makes it very hard to bring back anything useful. The next day I could still feel the dirty electricity feeling, and my near sighted vision was completely shot so I couldn't read for the day.

I'm very glad I was in my room for the duration, and while it was interesting to some degree I didn't feel it to be useful, or fun or enjoyable or enrapturing the way psychedelics can be. I wouldn't do it again.

During my reading of Huanduj: Brugmansia, I learned that even the very fragrance or indulgent of smelling tropane-containing plants (specifically true plants like brugmansia and datura in massive flower gardens) can induce states of inebriating vision leading to delirious behaviour and possibly death. A women at my work is currently growing brugmansia and I'm very excited to observe the flowers and perhaps smell a hint of the pungent odor. Very attractive and sacred plant, I must say. Their use can be EXTREMELY RISKY without proper knowledge, dosing or knowing their history of use.



Thanks for the information! Their effectiveness in facilitation seems encouraging.

Scopolamine is a very interesting chemical, I have read of it being mixed with cannabis in India to add to it's trance inducing qualities. I also know that it is worthwhile in extremely low doses for help in combating nausea and stomach discomforts (e.g. buscopan).

its interesting that you had a short duration and strong effect from the brugmansia tea bancopuma. i thought these alkaloids lasted up to 72 hours with lingering effects lasting even longer. arcanum, you mention dubiosa hopwoodi being used for pharmeceuticals, i havent seen dubiosa hopwoodi but there is actually a small plant (dubiosa is a shrub) which contains tropanes called 'pituri' hyoscine (or something like that) is one of the tropanes involved. Traditionally the aboriginals have been using it for thousands of years apparently and is quided with acacia ash as is dubiosa, but pituri is very area specialised in different areas it looks different, and they will grow sparsely but are easy to locate if you know the land. aboriginals used this plant to be able to walk for days on end with no food or water (obviously a delerious act).

I dont want to say what happened when i smoked small cones of it over a space of 4-5 days because im not even so clear on what it did myself, though it was definately strong, not to mention the wrong ROA. it wasn't exactly psychadelic, but i was delerious (smoking cigarettes that dissappeared ie. were not there etc.) and it wasnt fun. its dissapointing that i didnt seek advice or more information because i was talking to an aboriginal bloke about seeing some tribal elders. in my opinion tropanes are NOT SAFE for anyone or for any purpose, unless you know about the plant in question, have a specific use for it, and have an experienced guide or shaman that will support you 1:1 in a safe environment.

personally, i do want to try pituri again, though with the correct ROA this time, under the guidence of a shaman for the purpose of initiation some years down the road perhaps. i dont know much about the nightshade family or datura/brugmansia but werent tropanes traditionally used by witches in europe as an ointment? id really love some input there, as thats something id consider for using at levels under noticing effects, just for dreaming and meditation.

WARNING: Tropane alkaloids are generally NOT safe, because they are DELIRIANT'S and dont cause classic hallucinations that you can discern from reality