Campness can be learned, campness not gayness. Two different things. I presume gay people who become camp do this to identify each other, or even it's just like how if you lived in Australia for a long time your accent would probably eventually become more Australian-sounding- a cultural thing. I feel sorry for camp straight people. They get to suffer all the prejudice without any of the benefits.

But seriously Coatl, what is wrong with losing weight? 2/3 of America is obese, if gayness is the cure then maybe some people should consider it for the sake of their health And I don't see why talking 'like a woman' is a bad thing either. I shall leave this thread now, because once Coatl starts saying one-liners like this the thread usually goes downhill!

Many gay people do have feminine traits however many do not. Also some can learn things like how they dress and dialect. Of course they are culturally influenced just as straight people are. Many gay people wish they were not homosexual. They do not want to be gay for attention or what ever you think that is ridiculous.

Yea I want to be tormented, persecuted and made fun of so I will say I am gay. What a great idea.

The scientific evidence supports that their are physiological differences b/w homo and heteo sexuals. This are likely a combination of genitally susceptible and environment (mothers womb as I stated) factors. It is not a chose that people make.

It is just a neurological imbalance. It is a part of nature. It is observed through out the animal kingdom.

Seriously who gives a shit what people want to do. What gives you the right to say what is wrong and right? I would think someone who has experience with entheogens would be more open and caring towards others. I am honestly some what appalled that some of you actually feel this way. This macho culture anti-fag shit is stupid. If you are not gay then why do you care? Why does it bother you?

Well, choice or genetics aside, it should be respected as individual prerogative. Marriage in the US is most definitely an institution of the state and should not be sponsored as a religious institution, especially with so many financial implications tied to it.

As far as parenting goes: I'm inclined to believe that most gay couples who decide to adopt a child would take it upon themselves to be better parents than most straight couples. There's an excess of orphaned children and an excess of horrible or otherwise abusive parents (the VAST majority of them: straight). Who else is going to adopt these children?

A lot of people may think homosexuality is pretty sick and perverted or morally wrong, but wouldn't it be much worse for someone who feels themselves to be homosexual to stay closeted and start a family through a straight relationship? In such a case, being openly homosexual is a far more ethically sound choice.

Yes, and as a gay man who has been in a monogamous relationship for 12 years, I suggest you go re read that thread yourself before spreading more of your own underhanded bigotry then backstepping in the guise of opinion which demands tolerance.


I completely get your drift. You were implying that homosexuality presupposes pedophilia. No amount of backstepping can undo this. You know this to have been your true intention when you wrote it, as does everyone who read it. Vile slurs such as this go far beyond opinion and reveal much more about yourself than you'd care to imagine.


Your backstep continues to betray your deeper bigotry with the presupposition that homosexuality is a doctrine of amorality involving nothing but sex (curious that this is all your thoughts dwell on). The failure rate of heterosexual marriages and the abuse of children under the care of heterosexual partners is abysmal and hardly worth trumpeting as a fertile ground for instilling morality in the next generation. You cling with curious strength to the moral card. I assume you are a parent. I'm curious what your employer, parents, children, local and federal law enforcement, and so on would think of the morality of your participation on this forum?


Sorry, this is a two way street. Verify deep within yourself that you are truly not acting out of fear and hatred based on misinformation and misunderstanding and you may find that only then will you receive the tolerance you seek.

Have a good day.

Wow! GREAT post, freethinker - from beginning to end. I'm with you 100%.

As I am with you, Bufoman:



And you, Ohayoco:



And you, Entropymancer (though it took me a minute to figure out which side of the fight you are actually on):



And everyone else who's taken the time to state their case for tolerance.

As for Happy Camper: You're an embarrasment to the community. It's unbelievable that there could ever be a member of any community devoted to entheogenic discussion who would take such an ugly and bigoted position as the one you're so clearly committed to. And while homosexuality may be a matter of genetic code (I'm no scientist), tolerance surely is not. I'd be willing to bet that your backwoods pappy is as ugly on the inside as you are, and that your hatred and ignorance is completely a result of nurture and not one of nature.

To The Traveler: I'm very aware that I'm one of the "recently negative" in your warning post. So be it. I'm not here to stir up hostility, and I believe I contribute in a positive manner whenever it's warranted and appropriate. But it's interesting to me that while you frown upon fiery confrontation and the dropping of the occasional F-bomb, that you're not here calling this guy on the carpet for BLATANT BIGOTRY AND HATE MONGERING. Should we all play nice and tip-toe around the knucklehead minority in here? If views are posted that are ignorant at best (or disgusting and inflammatory at worst), why is it then more offensive to confront the poster head on? This, to me, is the kind of thing that's polluting your board, not the other. This, and the endless one-liner posts from a handful of the attention deprived.

There is so much great stuff that goes on in this place - interesting viewpoints, an abundance of information, intelligent discourse, etc. But there are ignorant assholes around here as well, and politeness ain't the cure for what ails them.

I too would wish you a good day if you acted like a civilized person. Unfortunately, since you are extra faggy today, I won't. No one seems to understand that I don't give a shit on who you bone in your spare time. You could even consider me the head of the KKK, because that is where this thread seems to be going. And yes my own bigotry. Well sure, I'll happily be one of the few people that has the guts to say that I don't like gays. And as a gay, I expect you to be offended. What exactly do you want to say? Going back and forth won't change anyones opinion. This is all leading to nothing.

My point is proven. Thank you.

Honestly, so we need this kind of open hate-speech on the forum? The irony of calling someone uncivilized, then going on to say that they're "extra faggy today" in the same breath is completely lost on him.

your right
sorry for that every one
and happy camper
keep posting i enjoy reading your thought s here
we just wont talk about gays

o its really not someting you learn
if you could learn to be straight id be that now

As a proud homosexual I take offense to this term -- from you at least.

HappyCamper -- Better to show your ignorance in faulty arguments than spiteful comments.


A kind thank you to all those posting here who have the ability to look past physical nuances (penis vs. vagina) and recognize beauty can be found in many places -- even in one's own sex.

The silver lining about discussions such as this, is that bigoted haters find it hard to keep their true thoughts hidden once confronted, and expose themselves for what they really are.

I would like to see HappyCamper banned for spreading hate and prejudice. You can't reason with the unreasonable. Hopefully such action will cause him to question why it is that people find his comments offensive. Maybe he'll learn to let go of such unjustified hatred. La purga.

Hey! Read my posts! I never said I dislike homosexuals, I was simply debating weather or not it is a "born" trait or not.

You know, I'm surprised that people in this forum would be discussing such a physical issue. Would not everyone in this forum agree that our 'spirit' or whatever it is about us that leaves this place is neither male nor female. With this presupposition we can conclude that homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual -- all of us are made of the same fundamental 'substance' and this question of sexuality only relates to our physical needs.

Seems rather 'low-brow' for those exploring the spirit.

saying that its a imbalance is not really accurate to what the new research is saying really. That and imbalance leads to the idea that its a problem, or deviant physiology... it maybe that its a evolutionary advantage. definitely lowers populations when people do not want to procreate with the opposite sex as much... i can see the advantage of that honestly...

I like a1pha's comment. Nice post dude.

I apologize for calling you a fag. I tend to blurt things out like that. However, this thread is only opinion. You will try to tell me it is natural and my opinion will be different. But when you try to PROVE me that I am wrong it is like trying to get me to convert to another religion. The claws tend to come out without knowing it.

My dad's idea is basically that nature designed gay people to help keep things in check. They seldom have children so they are basically workers, helping to keep society going without the burden of raising children. Their place in life is to help keep everything afloat. Without them, there would be do many children to tend to and not enough adults to keep watch.

Anyway, that's my dad's idea.

From living around gay people for many years when I lived in San Francisco, I learned that they are definitely suffering from being gay. Society really makes it hard for them. Many try to pretend to be straight just to fit in. It's sad to see people trying so hard to be something they're not, just so society will accept them.

I hope all of you gay bashers and people who think gays are immoral get reincarnated in a gay body and have to live your life as a gay person and experience first hand what it's like to be on the receiving end of YOUR EVIL ACTS.

I am a firm believer in "what goes around comes around" and that you'll eventually get back all the negativity you sent out towards these beautiful people. You'll get what's coming to you, I'm sure of that.

I will take NO PART in spreading hatred, ignorance, intolerance, or any other evils I am seeing in this thread. It is sick and I'm embarrassed to be a human being because of it.

I think we need a right to state our opinions here at the Nexus, whatever they may be.

It is my opinion that the sun revolves around the earth, because clearly, if you look up into the sky, that is what is happening.

Holding onto opinions when confronted with credible and substantial evidence is just ignorance.

We have that, 'Coatl... when have you seen a deleted post over someones opinion? If you have the right to state an opinion - especially on an internet forum, as amazing as this one is - you must be willing to accept others argument/bashing/whateveryawannacallit.

With that said, it's definitely interesting to see the true colors of people come out in these conversations. I believe... know... that it's not learned behavior. I know too many gay folk to believe that they just decided they like their own sex more. why the hell do gay discussions always come down to sex? Those who frown upon it ALWAYS bring it up... makes me believe they have an ounce or qp of homophobia... what are you so scared of?

'Prohibition' never works.