Good thread.

I found this comment on the Logos interesting. http://cdcruz.wordpress..../11/17/gnosis-and-logos/

"In Greek, logos has several meanings: order, pattern, ratio, reason, mediation, and harmony. Only in the most mundane and topical sense does logos mean “word” (or more precisely oration, or ‘spoken word’). But even in the meaning as ‘word’, our English equivalent misses the mark. We must of course place the spoken ‘word’ in traditional context as an act of cosmology. This is evident in the magical properties of the spoken divine names of the Hebrew Kabbalah, the mantras of Vedas, and the formulaic nomina barbara of Greco-Egyptian magic."

^..thank you for that Meddling Monk..
the ancient 'glossolalia' posted earlier relates to the magical chanting mentioned..

..the Logos is indeed an interesting word, for which there isn't a direct modern equivalent..in ancient usage it evidently didn't simply mean 'word'..it's also translated sometimes as 'the voice'..
'the Word heard inside' is one interpretation, and early christians/gnostics often saw it as the Christos...i.e Christ is the Logos is the word...but i like the expanded definition given in the quote above..

Terence (M) was fond of the Logos as a conjectural idea...
and of the nature of the dmt experience in which "meaning is beheld"..
the information is in the form of objectified translinguistic objects..so in a sense this could be seen as a more complete form of Logos.."order, pattern, ratio, reason, mediation, and harmony"...the expanded language level of gnosis..

in the classical gnostic model, Wisdom (Sophia) is prior to ('above' ) Logos..

Hey nen, thanks again for this brother...this thread was one of the major influences on me about a year ago to really look deeper in the gnostic material to try to make sense of my life...and it has changed my life. So much of the gnostic story is either too weird for most people to swallow it seems, or they simply attribute it to all kinds of strange ideas about aliens etc..but I felt like they were speaking right to the core of my soul.

I really like Miguel Conner, and his podcast aeon byte..I must have listened to 1-200 hours of his stuff just in a few months at night after work. I would suggest his stuff to anyone really trying to get a feel for gnostic ideas, free from strange new age projections and dogma, and the crowd who wants to apply aliens to everything..

here is an interview with Miguel...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfN8Uw_yT2o

"or if we simply take 'gnostic' to be a seeker of the 'direct knowledge' through technique (the broad definition)"

Kind of late in the thread to bring this up...but I want to weigh in and say no, that is not an adequate definition of gnosticism. Gnostic thought contains certain aspects beyond that, such as the idea that there is something inherently wrong with the world, it requires correction etc, and the gnostics were seeking some kind of liberation from this world and reunion with sophia in the pleroma.

Many people claim to be gnostics, because they have direct experiences. I think this is just sort of a new age appropriated take on it, and misses the actual point. Many of these people would probly be rather put off by some of the views the gnostics seem to have held about this world.

also this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgBViHeiSKM

^^..hey thanks very much jamie..i am truly glad you got something from this thread..
is the whole motivation to write anything online..
(speaking of which, apologies for the delay..have had a little net fatigue of late, and very busy)

jamie wrote:
..i generally agree with you jamie..i've referred to 'Classical Gnosticism' and attempted to convey a general definition..which i tried to give in this post on p1, starting with:
nen888 wrote:
..and yes i think the term 'Gnostic' has become a very broad, or modern pastiche, definition, based on the literal meaning of the ancient greek word gnosis γνῶσις - spiritual knowledge through direct experience
..the Golden Dawn (as in the late 19th/early 20th century esoteric lot, not the modern greek political party) did this to an extent, largely because there were almost no primary classical Gnostic texts still existing at that point, when interest in esoterica began to rise..the Nag Hammadi texts were not of course re-discovered until 1945, and not accessible to the public until the 70s -
cue Phillip K. Dick..i don't think he 'missed the point'..but i agree many fashionable uses of the word stray from the original gist..or what is common between the various diverging forms of ancient gnosticism

..if there is an emphasis equal to or greater than the higher order entity level of the 'troubles in the world', in the classical Gnostic texts, it is the core spirit experience which allows one to transcend and withstand or resist the troubles..that the essential 'spark' is uncorrupted..that the spirit dwells within all, beyond the reach of the 'archons', or the 'blind god', or the 'evil-doers', with purification of mind..and that we may each find emancipation in the knowledge and direct experience of the Source (or the Infinite Aeon, or the 'Father' etc) through Sophia (wisdom)

in The Concept of Our Great Power we are told:


and in the Christian Gnostic text The Sophia of Jesus Christ,
Jesus says:

..similar to descriptions of 'Brahman'...Jesus in India, anyone? ..but that's another story/thread..

thanks again jamie for your comments..i wish you well on your paths of enquiry..

and may Sophia emancipate us all..
.

Apologies to dig up an old thread.. I've myself been touched by the gnostic teachings over the past year and know few people in real life who share interest.. this was the first result to come up when searching the words gnosticism and dmt together on google.. and was mysteriously timely - as I had just finished re-reading and making more sense of "Thunder" earlier yesterday morning before coming across your thread nen!

I was wondering whether anybody had any thoughts on interpreting "hyperspace" through a gnostical lens? Obviously a realm so inneffable in nature kind of defies terminology (especially being so variable person to person) but the gnostics seemed to do a pretty good job of bringing the ineffable into words for man to exercise his mind with so I'm be pretty interested to see what nexians may bring to the table..

The DMT breakthrough experience perhaps feels at times too rich in "content" to be an experience of "the one" that the gnostics speak of (at least at the common breakthrough dose ..5-meo a good candidate?) .. but could certainly be thought of as the "son" or "image of god" or pleroma and its various aeons?

I've personally found that my dmt experiences have become less dualistic since encountering gnosticism.. without going into too much detail the last deep breakthrough experience I had managed to reduced all the feelings of love, joy and sweetness I have known into a single point or "small margin" between the visions.. like a spark. it was a formless beauty I hadn't previously been witness to.. and it was neat the way it made itself known at a time when I was pondering a lot of gnostic concepts...

I feel like just pondering a lot of the gnostic ideas is itself part of a process of moving closer to the source they speak of;

I found the passage "The Aeons search for the Father [71;7;35]" particularly touching and reflecting of the seeds sown too in the human condition..



thankyou for such a great thread nen.. your understanding of Gnosticism is a beacon to msyelf and others.. a lot of the stuff in the Nag Hammadi can go straight over my head so this thread is a valuable resource for understanding differen't concepts

am truly glad you got something out of the thread acacian...that's always the aim..and thank you for that post...

from whence and where does 'hyperspace' emanate, one interested in both entheogens and gnosticism may ask..what is the essence of the gnosis these ancient mystics describe?
which takes me back (like you acacian) to the OP:

The Thunder - Perfect Mind

"..I am the silence that is incomprehensible
and the idea whose remembrance is frequent.
I am the voice whose sound is manifold
and the word whose appearance is multiple.
I am the utterance of my name..."

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