There's only one objective thing you can say for absolute certain- that there is at the very least a sort of illusion of experience.

We always end up here. I bet if I opened up a thread about cookie recipes by page 5 people would be saying 'but how can you prove stuff is really stuff!?'.

Another much simpler flow of discussion would be:
But how can you say for sure?
Well, because I have a gun, and shut up.

I would really hope that a cookie recipe thread here would not get 5 pages of responses

I would really hope that a cookie recipe thread here would not get 5 pages of responses

Ok, I will fall for your 'bait' yet again

Another much simpler flow of discussion would be:

But how can you say for sure?
Well, because I have a gun, and shut up.

Have you guys even tried DMT?

This all works with wormholes. In the heart of the body is a micro-blackhole that is essentially linked to another universe. Energy travels (to us) instantaneously and the conscious mind processes this energy and thinks they are generated by it's own body. Which it is not. I have been thaught about this micro-blackhole by a biologist who understood Field theories. Essentially the geometry and shape of the heart's magnetic field produces a vortex which theoretically (Einstein-rosen bridge) produces a micro-blackhole.

Infectedstyle, I think it's about time you cease and desist with these wild claims of yours without providing a single reliable source. Your verbal BS is beginning to clog the pipes of this thread and violates one of our most important rules:


Consider this your last warning before receiving a nice vacation from the DMT-Nexus.

a1pha

The first truth about awareness is that the world out there is not really as we think it is. We think it is a world of objects and it's not.

You say you agree with me because everything could be reduced to being a field of energy. But you are merely intuiting a truth. To reason it out is not to verify it. I am not interested in your agreement or disagreement, but in your attempt to comprehend what is involved in this truth. You cannot witness fields of energy; not as an average man, that is. Now, if you were able to see them, you would be a seer, in which case you would be explaining the truths about awareness.

Conclusions arrived at through reasoning have very little or no influence in altering the course of our lives. Hence, the countless examples of people who have the clearest convictions and yet act diametrically against them time and time again; and have as the only explanation for their behavior the idea that to err is human.
The first truth is that the world is as it looks and yet it isn't. It's not as solid and real as our perception has been led to believe, but it isn't a mirage either. The world is not an illusion, as it has been said to be; it's real on the one hand, and unreal on the other. Pay close attention to this, for it must be understood, not just accepted. We perceive. This is a hard fact. But what we perceive is not a fact of the same kind, because we learn what to perceive.

Something out there is affecting our senses. This is the part that is real. The unreal part is what our senses tell us is there. Take a mountain, for instance. Our senses tell us that it is an object. It has size, color, form. We even have categories of mountains, and they are downright accurate. Nothing wrong with that; the flaw is simply that it has never occurred to us that our senses play only a superficial role. Our senses perceive the way they do because a specific feature of our awareness forces them to do so.

I've used the term "the world" to mean everything that surrounds us. I have a better term, of course, but it would be quite incomprehensible to you. Seers say that we think there is a world of objects out there only because of our awareness. But what's really out there are the Indescribable Force 's emanations, fluid, forever in motion, and yet unchanged, eternal.

^But science has shown that matter is just condensed energy. Have you ever heard of mass-energy equivalence, DeBroglie wavelength, and wave-particle duality. Science has come to the same realizations as Don Juan. The reason that we perceive matter as objects is because the wave aspect of matter is so minute that we can't perceive it.

Don Juan may know these things from experience, but reason has given us knowledge of the mechanics of energy that could never be understood solely through experience. Don Juan can only say that he "knows" that the world is energy but he can't harness that energy in a way that is nearly as tangible as science, so his knowledge is arguably less than that of science.

If I recall correctly from the book "The Teachings of Don Juan", Don Juan basically believed that knowledge is proportional to power. And power is the ability to use your knowledge to perform tasks. Correct me if I'm wrong. Science has accomplished far more than any "man of knowledge", so by that logic the knowledge of science is superior.

I would argue that trying to comprehend the energetic nature of the universe through experience is far from verifying this idea. The senses can be fooled. The real way to verify this is experimentally, the way that science works. Plus, we witness fields of energy all the time. Heat, light, electricity, gravity. These are all "fields of energy". We may not always see them with our eyes, but we witness them and their results at all times.

I was reading up on the saga of Joebono (some older members will remember him), and it got me thinking: what if DMT, psychedelics, everything is all BS? Maybe they're just molecules that happen to fit into our brains in such a way as to stimulate the 'profundity' switch in our brains, and we're all just buying into what are essentially psychotic visions. Does it matter?

Blessings
~ND

Let me answer OP's original question with another question:

Is the DMT world any more bullshit than discussing whether it is real or not for 9 pages?

Like the old Zen masters say: "try not to think so much, preferably, try not to think at all... It is thought which lies at the root of suffering." What I'm saying is, whether real or not and how to measure that, maybe its only the experience itself that counts. If so, the best you can do is just chill out and enjoy the ride. The more you think about what it all could mean and how to interpret it, the further detached from it you become...

How can thinking cause suffering?

I had this funny insight during one of my Ayahuasca journeys.. You know how people talk about a new age being ahead of us, a transition into a higher consciousness? I felt such transitions only take place when the world gets bored of itself. "Hello? We're all living in perfect harmony with ourselves and nature now. Level complete, boring, next please!" Think of it.. Why did a perfect one celled organism world transition into a multicelled organism one? Science can't explain and there wasn't a real need for it.

Thinking complicates the simplistic beauty of life. The more we complicate it, the less bored we become, the further we distance ourselves from getting the next upgrade! Like a dog chasing its tail..

Thats what this discussion is: pointless.

However, As long as we are not bored and enjoying the experience, of life, this discussion, all is fine. No harm in that at all. Its what life is about, to experience. But thinking that thinking will take us somewhere is pure maya in my opinion. In the mean time..

Let this knowledge not stop us from continuing having some more fun by keeping on thinking!

Fuck boredom, leave that to our childrens children.. I have hope.

Why did a perfect one celled organism world transition into a multicelled organism one? Science can't explain and there wasn't a real need for it.

Thinking complicates the simplistic beauty of life. The more we complicate it, the less bored we become, the further we distance ourselves from getting the next upgrade!