I was reading up on the saga of Joebono (some older members will remember him), and it got me thinking: what if DMT, psychedelics, everything is all BS? Maybe they're just molecules that happen to fit into our brains in such a way as to stimulate the 'profundity' switch in our brains, and we're all just buying into what are essentially psychotic visions.

Does it matter?

Blessings
~ND

I don't see that as making it any less important. IMO it has nothing to do with the why or how, those are just details.

We already know they are not psychotic visions. I believe the sheer number of experiences proves that. There are patterns that everyone shares. Why? We do not know, there may not be an answer to this. It may be that it just happens to effect us in a way to allow us to see things from a perspective that allows for personal transformation.

DMT is BS.

Woulden't change a thing

When you take into account the fact that everything we experience can be traced back to its corresponding brain-state, coupled with the fact these moments of profundity would most likely not occur in the same way in the time period that you would get if you smoked some DMT in that same time period (sorry if that was confusing) , it is obvious to me that yes, these drugs are absolutely hitting the "profundity switch" in our brains. I mean, how many times have you had that feeling of "knowing the answer to everything" during the peak of a really intense trip, only to forget that startling revelation hours later? Even when written down, the prophecies don't always translate back into something coherent.

However, this DOES NOT at all mean that we can't learn anything insightful from psychedelics, OBVIOUSLY. I think the test is to explore these revelations with a totally sober perspective and see if they hold up to sound logic.

Even then, though, you can get lost on a path of delusional beliefs. It is easier than some proponents of psychs tend to portray. I know a girl who is absolutely convinced that there are two kinds of humans; traditional gaian humans and martians. And she could tell the difference supposedly. *Relatively* normal in other regards. I don't know. Probably depends on the content of your mind and how you link together concepts/ideas in the first place.

First

Second: Who are you to say what we have or have not "bought in" to?

There are no answers...only more questions. Imo, when it comes to psychedelics, the interesting question is not, "Is this experience 'real'..." whatever that means, but rather, "What can we do with this experience?"

And.... obligatory Entropymancer thread:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=11579

What if "consensus reality" is BS? Or just as BS as the psychedelic state? Or even more BS? What does "real", and "BS" even mean anyways?

We are all on drugs, all the time...Largely because our brains are made of and run on drugs/biochemistry/pick a term. These things play a vital part in helping orchestrate our reality 24/7

I don't think the question makes any sense really

Some DMT experiences are BS.

Some life experiences are BS.

Eventually through time, a sound mind can pick it's truth.

I only need to look to art and poetry to see that something whether inspired by nature, substances or life events, to know that something coherent and worthwhile came from it all.

The experience is what is important, not what makes it happen.

It doesn't really matter if its BS or not when it heals people and provides artistic inspiration among numerous other beneficial effects.

Reality is what you can get away with.
-RAW

It doesn't matter whether or not DMT and other psychedelics are BS if you are using them as a tool for introspection to better your life. In this situation, it wouldn't even matter if all of reality was somehow BS, since it doesn't change the positive affects of psychedelics (when used properly) that are experienced in this hypothetical BS reality.

Plus, there are documented health benefits attributed to the use DMT and other psychedelics. These benefits go beyond the psychological. They can be physically quantified. For instance, regular ayahuasca use upregulates serotonin receptors. Also, psychedelics induce increases in the levels of BDNF, which promotes brain health in a general sense.

So whether, you believe in the spiritual aspect of psychedelics or not, psychedelics are medicines and tools to explore and understand the consciousness and self.

Not without defining the term BS.

Epistemology and the study of Justified True Belief might lead to some answers.
As will Philosophy of Mind. Or silent meditation.
...Or not.

What if BS was all there was?

DMT is just a molecule it interacts with other molecules that make up our brains.

Beyond that it's all about perception.

Psychedelics, especially DMT and Ayahuasca, have taught me how little I know.

Rather it's bs or not is beside the point for me. The lesson is one of learning humility not of gaining knowledge.

I went back and read some of the Joebono threads for curiosity of what seems to have become legend. My first impression so far is that fear crept up on him. It crept up on him to the point he was struggling to contain it.

Honestly though, I've had a few seriously tough trips where everything was broken and I was gone, and I came back in a completely stunned state. But as the drug wears off I always remember how much trust I have in my own physiology, and in the stability of the neuron. That's one thing that's helped me so much in the realm of philosophical understanding of emotional extremes, and their transient nature, and how emotions leave behind signature memory traces. Try waking up after being in a coma from a failed suicide attempt to find how rapidly your world changes after that moment, and the idea of hyperslaps and returning to reality unchanged with healthy and normal physiological measures is not a big deal at all. You walk it off. It's no big deal. Just don't freak out in your mind and everything is good.

Pardon me if I've taken a wrong turn in this thread, but what I think is BS is fear. Letting fears take your life in the wrong direction is the only true BS. Love is truth. If you can fill your life with genuine love, then nothing else matters. Details will always be details. Fears challenge your ideas of what's real and what's not in spooky ways, but at the end of the day fear is just an emotional sensation to be avoided. Embrace its presence and watch it vanish, I say. To accept fear in your life over living, dying, or anything else is the only BS that exists, in my humble opinion.

Joebono should be interviewed for The Nexian for a follow up.

Anyone know what happened to him? Has anyone heard from him?

Joe spends his time on the shroomery, spreading his "DMT is BS" philosophy that it's a poison (which he also called addictive) and psychedelics simply screw with people

He is still on the Shroomery as Joe Malloy, he regularly talks about his bad experience with DMT and maligns DMT as cruel and seductive. Though, he still trips on other substances I believe.

He was smoking it multiple times a day, including lunch break at work. I think it was a case of an ally turning into an enemy from abuse.

I second House's idea to interview him for the Nexian.

I agree.