so i read dune in middle school before expanding my mind... lol. but i recently reread dune not long after my first experience with dmt and after rereading dune (the first one... the other ones are ok but someone else was right that they get a little weird and drawn out later) the first thing that came to my mind when reading dune was spice = DMT!
there are however some very big differences between spice melange and "elf spice" of course the addiction point has been brought up... but like 69ron was saying dmt wasnt very popular when dune was written. but i remember seeing something (possibly even on this forum ) that said that when T McKenna was looking into dmt he got a report from a friend saying that it was addictive and could cause capillaries to burst in the eye (maybe part of the blue eye thing solved?) so back when dune was written DMT was not very popular and there very well could have been a misconception that DMT was addictive. so just keep in mind that spice melange and elf spice may not be the same thing. however anyone who has done DMT or any other hallucinogen (only tried shrooms here ) should see the immediate connections and similarities between melange and DMT. especially the seeing time and previous lives i mean if that doesnt sound like elf spice i dont know what does!

be safe all and try to stay happy!

Well this is a blast from the past.

Alas, the new Dune movie fizzled out and died before pre-production began.

Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert are still writing books in the Dune series, however. The newest installment is set to be released in March this year.

Now, after having more years of experience with DMT and in particular with Ayahuasca, I'm more inclined to lean that way. It is the "Spice Melange" after all, melange meaning "mixture". The healing and invigorating properties of the fictional spice, the long life...seems to be more in tune with Ayahuasca than vaporized DMT.

Cinnamon, which the fictional spice is said to smell and taste of, is actually fairly bitter. Dark brown and bitter...much like a reduced Ayahuasca brew.

Frank Herbert worked many jobs during his lifetime. He worked as a jungle survival instructor He was a big a supporter of the environmentalist movement. There is no doubt he was aware of traditional shamanic uses of mind altering plants.

I've always been a sci-fi geek. But Dune really captured my imagination in a way no other story ever has. I still have yet to come across something as original as "The Spice" from Dune. An awareness drug which an entire economy, even an entire civilization, revolves around. Some could argue that Herbert may have been saying something about fossil fuels. And that he may have. But the whole Spice Melange idea is far more complex than that. I think he incorporated several different ideas into one, which makes it something truly unique.

I don't think dune's spice was inspired on DMT either, but I certainly see some parallels.

I thought it was Terrence McKenna who first coined the term "elf spice" as a nickname for DMT.
Or did he get that term from someone else? Who first discovered the psychoactive effects of smoalked or injected DMT?
Was that Tristan Szara? Who knows he or one of the first few people to smoalk/inject dmt after him coined that term for DMT and Terrence borrowed it from them?

..enjoyed Metanoia's summary of melange..
yes there's a reference near the end of Chapter House to effective medicines being bitter..

to address the ridiculous (imo) comments by 69ron earlier:

we are told in Dune: the Spice expands consciousness..

there is quite a high chance Frank Herbert was aware of DMT in 1965 (particularly ayahuasca)

Stephen Szára was the first scientist to report the effects of DMT (by injection) in 1956, after it had been found to be a major component of Yopo seed snuffs..

there was interest in yage/ayhuasca in the late 50s....particularly in academic/literary/psychology /beatnik circles..
e.g. William Burroughs was aware of it when he wrote The Naked Lunch in 1959..

the first person to smoke DMT was apparently Nick Sand in 1961..

Terence McKenna was introduced to DMT at Berkley in 1965..

(i should summarize this history again in another thread, but it's all been mentioned, in scatterings in the nexus)

Ah yeah STEPHEN Szára was his name. Now I'm wondering how it is I thought his first name was Tristan

What did either the Dune books or games have to say about the method in which Dune's spice is consumed?

In the first Dune novel the main character Muad'Dib takes pellets of it, a more concentrated form, to induce prescient visions. The Fremen include it in all of their foods. They drink Spice coffee and Spice beer There is no mention of smoking it throughout all of the Dune novels, at least that I've seen. I've read every Dune book published more than once, but I suppose I still could have missed a smoking reference. Highly unlikely though

Then there's The Water of Life, which is the liquid that a sandworm vomits just before dying of drowning. It is a poison that will kill, but the Reverend Mothers drink it and with their own body's metabolism convert the poison into a safe drinkable form. This conversion becomes a catalyst and all the Water of Life is changed so that an entire community of Fremen can partake of the Spice orgy It has obvious similarities to an Ayahuasca circle, IMO. Not necessarily big orgies, but when a community drinks The Water of Life they have a "sharing", sort of a psychic phenomenon where they can "feel" each other. Brings them closer together as a people and is an outlet for frustrated or negative energies (again, much like Ayahuasca). The Water of Life has another function as well, beyond the everyday person's intoxication. When a person wishes to become a Reverend Mother, the final test is if that person can "see through" The Water of Life. If they can successfully convert the poison, hence saving themselves from death, they become a true Reverend Mother.

It's a rather complicated and fascinating subject. Definitely worth a read by any who journey with Ayahuasca, or DMT.

I understand that when the Amanita Muscaria is ingested in a traditional ceremony(in parts of Russia) that the shaman would drink it first and thus removes the suffering and negative aspects of the mushroom. Removing the poison so to speak so that the community could enjoy the purified form in the shamans urine.

Yes, that's another comparison you can make! Obviously Herbert was aware of some of these shamanic practices. I do believe The Spice of Dune is multilayered in meaning. He was a brilliant author.

If what some people say about mono-atomic gold is true then it seems it would fit that description moreso than even DMT

I've really been meaning to re-read "Dune" since having a few mystical experiences. I read it maybe 5 year's ago, and it instantly became my favorite book. That being said, I could only appreciate the spiritual aspects of the book on an intellectual level. I think I might get more out of it should I read it again.

Anyway, I always thought spice was kind of supposed to be like oil in a way, though obviously not solely representative of oil as it is more than a material resource.

Never heard of the Dune series before reading this thread... I will have to check it out now, seems like some good reads!

I love the Dune series with a passion, especially the book Dune. I like to believe that spice is a moniker that came from that. The similarities as the first response said are so similar. Mind expansion, transcending space/time, getting answers, knowing yourself. All these things both the spice Melange and DMT spice share.

Cool thread.

There is symbolism in everything. I'd imagine that on some level, the reason it's called spice is because of the TV series and the reason spice exists in the TV series is because of DMT.

Additionally though, I've just realised/remembered that I haven't seen/read Dune! Downloading the series now. Hopefully it's as good as the books appear, though I can't say I have high hopes. Sure I would have seen it, though there is hope!

Personally I enjoyed the made-for-TV miniseries of Dune and Children of Dune. They're not multimillion dollar budget Hollywood movies, but they follow the books well enough to be very entertaining. The old David Lynch Dune film from 1984 is....different Dune fans either love it or hate it. I myself am the latter.

You know Frank Herbert wrote the hexalogy first right? But yeah I think of Dune when I hear the term 'spice'. But I think mystical spice seems like it might be a common plot device in many fairytales and such.

THE SPICE MUST FLOW!!!

So I was just looking for info on the new dune movie--the one that got cancelled, or didn't. Still not sure.

But hold on....so, in the 1970's some director spent years trying to get a dune movie together. And the movie was supposed to involve--Orson Welles, Mick Jagger, Pink Floyd, Magma, Giger (set design) and Dali (acting, playing a villain). Damn.

So there's a new documentary about this dune movie that wasn't:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.co...lvador-dali-orson-680511

Here's another 'spice melange' for you:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=47066

"The spice must flow!":

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=53321

This is a great topic of interest for hardcore Dune fans like myself If Jodorowsky's vision of Dune had been realized it could have been monumental. There's all kinds of artwork and storyboards and such from that project all over the web. And with Paramount now scrapping the new Dune film, what else do we have to talk about?

Apparently, according to one of FH friends, The Spice in Dune was insired by magic mushrooms....