No worries Snozz. I have been following this thread and have a lot to say, but not enough time at the moment. But I couldn't let that one slide.

And sorry (Enoon particularly) if i was treading on ground already covered. I must have missed that thread.

Cheers,

JBArk

I am really sorry to hear that you only know two men like that. That is a real shame. Maybe it is a difference in Canada, or with my socio-economic (educated) circle, but almost everyone I know is like that, with a few notable exceptions - and these exceptions are generally men not well liked because of most of their views, not least their views toward women.

Not to say they are perfect, but the use of disrespectful language is certainly frowned upon.

Then again, I don't really circulate in high testosterone Alpha circles... That may be a whole other story, even here.

Cheers,


JBArk

I have actaully noted, in real life situations I have encountered, the use of these degrading slang terms towards women being used more frequently by women themselves.

Jamie, i'm always stunned by the way you are able to weave unconventional thinking into coherent and plausible argument, kudos for that!




Marxist Feminists would probably agree and it is very disgusting to see a movement of liberation being instrumentalized as a tool of opression. This thread proves how easily this can be done by a play on emotions. The more important it is to break free from this problem-trance and to think clearly.

When it comes to divine femininity the issue of sexuality automatically comes to my mind.
With the christianisation of tribal europe came a strong disdain for the body - and sexuality. This goes way back to Plato but Christianity really lived that philosophy. There are many reasons for the slaying of women known as witches. One could argue that it was "just the works of dumb people" who needed the age of "enlightenment" to let go of their supersticions. But in reality, it was a clash of cultures and then - a cultural genocide. I think even the malleus maleficarum describes how women are sexually unsatisfiable by nature and that the devil likes to poses them during Sex. These ridiciolous ideas live on to this day...

Its not, like jamie said, that our culture has evolved peacefully, it was established by FORCE and basically built on the ruins of a tribal society which was possibly very functional...

This is of course not the last occurence of this pattern...it went on and on and on...growing through indigenous cultures like cancer, pummeling them into poverty....

It is really disgusting how meaningful traditions lost their weight overnight, how arrogance of dominatory oriented colonists robbed many peoples of their cultural centers. The native americans still have a very high rate of depression and high rates of alcohol abuse. The !Kung of the kalahari one of the last hunter-gatherer cultures forced into habitats as some sort of "wildlife" the list goes on and on and on...

I said that suffering shouldn't be a contest but lets have a look at the bigger picture here. What is this idea of TOTAL DOMINATION and TOTAL HIERARCHIES doing to this world?

Hate breeds hate ... it's a clichee but still true.


As for "language creates reality":

I also don't know anyone who uses racist and sexist language in real life. I think it is a sign of weakness to need that in order to construct your own gender identity. I know there is this concept of the "male hegemony": Women are being opressed so men can share the dividends of that oprerssion among themselves. I don't know. To me it seems that more and more men have lost their identity and easily fall back into male stereotypes because not much more room for them to be different compared to women.

I tend to think our culture is on the brink of becoming consciouss, a seperate entity living with us humans in symbiosis but capable of thinking...some sort of AI enhanced Demon....

Alright, that would break this thread...

The C word for me is an endearing term that I use in reference to my friends (male) to their face in a strong cockney accent. Though I once heard a talk from a feminist speaker about her beautiful 'C' which I found awesome. Nothing better than when someone slices through BS like butter and turns it on its head.


I always find it awkward, but especially where I'm living now which is much more rural than I am used to, that many women accept supposed inferiority. I have noted though that this is much more common among less intelligent women and more enforced by less intelligent men. These behaviours go hand in hand with racist attitudes along with very 2-D views on the justice system and a mistrust of exotic food. I'm completely at odds with that because my ideal woman would be a Psychonautic Korean chef

Wow I had my post removed for typing half a word that was spelt out clearly with no ##'s in pandoras post.

Someone takes life to seriously.

I was not trying to offend nor was the word was not addressed at any individual or even fully spelt out. The tabloids could print that in the uk. Papers like the guardian would just print the whole word. I can see why the nexus discourages profanities especially directed at other members but I can't really believe that it needed censoring. I was discussing how swearing is not gender based or generally meant in a sexually demeaning way in my home town.

And that was where you were wrong, it is not about how YOU perceive the words, but how OTHERS do. So even if YOU do not care about those words, it is about how OTHERS feel when you use that word.

People should learn to look beyond the me, me, me. That you can withstand a freezing temperature for one hour while being naked, does not mean that others can or even should.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

I did not spell out the word as to not offend. It had also already been discussed and spelt out in a previous post. I was explaining that a lot of the time this is how people talk especially in the UK with the big C . These people are not usually out to offend its just that they have been exposed to a different environment (not a freezing naked one as suggested).

Why didn't YOU edit Pandora's (to whom I mean no offence) post as not to OFFEND (big letters like you used) OTHERS.

Peace and love

Kind Regards

Randomness

Masters! Teach me how this is done.

I won't whine, I'll darn your socks and stitch you when you're wounded, and anything you ask of me I'll do, except one thing: I won't wear a dress.

fundamentalism should mean just about the same thing as radicalism in that sense - going to the foundation of something. just another image for roots or core. So really, etymology aside, what we mean is people insisting on their world-view and trying to enforce it onto everyone else in a very intollerant and inflexible way - be it their religious belief, their fight for equality or their political view.

This is classic! I could just imagine the men in olden times conning their wives into darning their socks with the old "you are weaving our fate" spiel. It sounds like an old school version of the "behind every strong leader is a strong woman".



Me too. I think it helps to reclaim and take away the offensive power of such words.



Pandora is a woman and therefore allowed to use the C word.

But it doesn't...fundamentalism actually means "the demand for a strict adherence to orthodox theological doctrines," or, in a political sense, "a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles." These are vastly different terms, with vastly different meanings.

Radicals seek to address the root of the issue, fundamentalists demand "strict adherence" and the imposition of their worldviews.

Consider, for instance, the "diversity of tactics" encouraged by anarchists (political radicals)


This is radically () different than the fundamentalist component you are attempting to ascribe to it. In fact, I would posit that this particular example is antithetical to a fundamentalist approach.

---

JBark, I spent a good portion of yesterday mulling over your words. They really struck me in a profound way and I think you are entirely correct: my use of empowering was not at all the appropriate terminology. I got caught up in what I was writing and now, having some distance, agree that it was a wildly inappropriate phrasing. I hope the deeper ideas that I was driving at with regards to self defense and traumatized states have not been irreparably marred by my phrasing, but I wanted to thank you, sincerely, for calling me out. <3

I just don't buy into this gender thing at all.

Its unequal on both sides in today's society. You can scream patriarchy and misogyny all you like until you actually look into the other side and see how feminism has pretty much gone overboard and that misandry is more rife than ever.

Humanity sucks to itself, gender is a farce and the only thing that separates us is ourselves. Men are not born gruff and warlike and women are not born nurturing and... how can I say it...cute?. Both are monsters and both are angels. But if you brainwash either into these intrinsically meaningless gender roles from the moment they are born what do you get?

This thread, for one.

Or am I trying to subvert the whole thing to dampen female issues because of my masculinity, in order to silence feminism because I'm being so patriarchal... lol

Pandora is a woman and therefore allowed to use the C word.




[/quote]

Love it :-)

I showed this to a couple of female friends and they both thought it was really funny. Both agreed that the most common use of the word in England was towards males then objects then occasionally females. Neither thought it needed reclaiming for women as in the N word.

When asked both women said that they found other things originating from popular culture way more offensive. Snoop dog was mentioned (he has an album with women pictured wearing dog collars and being taken for walkies on the cover). The use of women as sex objects in music videos hanging off and grinding "bad boys" was considered a bad thing as it gives impressionable young lads (who already call the police the Feds) the idea that women like a chap who treats them like "bitches and hoes", it also gives young girls the impression that this is what boys want (which is untrue on the whole).

Totally unrealistic body images portrayed in movies and magazines was one of the things that was also brought up. This is something children are regularly exposed to through the media. Eating disorders and a lack of confidence are a result of this unrealistic portrail of women's bodies. Both women said was harder to separate this from the slutty imagery of pop videos as it was more prevalent across all forms of media.

I think something gets lost in translation over the Atlantic as I have never seen the C word used in Americans films (where mofo is used every sentence) so I am guessing it is taboo. Watch a gritty British TV drama or a British film about London and you will hear how C is used and how it is not really referencing women's genitals in any way.

Google - spastic transformer for a good example of this difference of interpretation but in reverse. In the UK spastic is a insulting term for a disabled person and not used. The makers of transformers thought it would be a good name for a toy. Not here it wasn't outrage from disabled groups ensued and the toy was never released.

There is quite a difference in humour between the US and UK. We are very sarcastic and quite harsh in the UK and there are barley any subjects off limits to comedians. Check out Jimmy Carr, Frankie Boyle or Jo Brand (good female comic) for an illustration of this. These people are equally liked by different sexes although taken out of context there work would sound obscene.

I am sorry if I caused any offence with my previous comments. The way in which something is perceived is not always the way it is intended.

Isn't this a double standard? In fact, to say one group of people can use a word who have a particular sex, while another group of a differing sex cannot, to me sounds exactly like discrimination of the sexual variety. Dare I say, sexism?

Would stop my GF calling me a D##K when she has the hump :-)

I'm with you on this one. It's how you use the words. If I made a mistake and said "oh I feel a bit of a tit for doing that" it would be different to going up to a woman and saying "nice t##s you got there" one is harmless and not specifically sexist the other is rude and inappropriate.

You can be just as rude to someone without using slang the intent behind the words is what matters not the language used.

You are not wrong. Life is full of double standards. We are human, we make mistakes. Does it really matter? No one"s been murdered.



I think by putting the C word into common use it is being unwittingly reclaimed. The more i hear it in everyday life, the more it loses it"s power to offend. It could also be said that those who use the word vagina are unwittingly using a deeply patriarchal word for the female genitalia in that the latin translation for vagina is scabbard or sword sheath. Sometimes we can"t help offending each other, even when we are trying our damndest not to.
At the moment my favourite word for genitalia is ki-ki. It can be used for a male or female so is fairly innocuous but i am sure that there is someone, somewhere who would cop the hump over it"s use.

"Cop the hump" is a fantastic phrase. I have never heard that before! I love it! It proptly shall be made part of my speech.

I know you're right, hug46. I guess my point is...meh. I'm tired of points.

This discussion has opened my eyes to the more subtle influences of patriarchy, but other arguments I feel are making something from generally nothing. So, it really is nothing that one can use the c-word, while others can't. Exactly my point.

From my point of view, at least in modern society the influences of patriarchy have been lessened to a large extent. The still pervasive influences of patriarchy, which remain intertwined with our culture and language, surely have some power, but I think most folks are about as fair as they can be, at least most folks I have the pleasure of associating with. All one can really do is try their best to be fair to others, something I have always attempted, but have also failed at many times.

I guess I still made a point (or points), but I tried not to. That dang soap box is so seductive...

With that, I bid this thread adieu.

Louie CK on "the N Word", it can be applied to "the C Word".

Language is so incredibly nuanced that a certain amount of swearing, in the proper context, should be allowed. But, of course, then everyone would think their use of fill-in-the-"offensive"-word-here was apropos.

Fun example: "I smoked a fag this morning," the British man thought.

Change that to: "I smoked a f*g this morning," the homophobic assassin recalled.

Change the context, change the meaning completely. This is fun, I wanna do another:

Thanksgiving was going very well. Halfway through the meal, the men started talking football and who would punt the first pigskin of the day.

Little Shirley, a seven year old, asked from the kiddie table: "Daddy, what's a cu*t?"

Little Shirley didn't understand until years later why her innocent comment had caused such a hearty uproar of laughter from the adults.



Ahhh I could do this all day, but I'll spare you such pain.