It is impossible for you to be more wrong about that.

Hilarious. You are like a block of cement, unchanging, inflexible and stuck.

Good luck with your religion.

There are countless valid, good religions practiced by billions of people.

These religions often enrich peoples lives and help them in countless ways.
To state that those religions are dead is simply not true.

Sure there are some sheep like followers in some religions, but there are faithful good people who practice their religions.

To dismiss these people and their beliefs in such a general way is appallingly ignorant.

Ah, I was going to go away, but, hey, I'll play along. Yes: I am appallingly ignorant. You are right and I am wrong.

Religion enslaves and prays upon the fears of humans. Worship, or be cast into the lake of Fire. All religion? No. Most? Yes.

Religious faith and PRACTICE are two very different things. Religious faith instills an inner smugness: I am right and you are wrong. I am going to heaven. You are going to hell. Here, read these pamphlets. Pray. Worship. Get on your knees.

Practice is the inner seeking, climbing the mountain. No preaching needed.

I think you are being too general about religion and too dismissive.

The idea that most religion enslaves, preys upon fear and makes people smug seems ignorant to me.

I know that you are right that there are lots of examples of that, but there are also examples where religion does not prey on fear, where it humbles people and where it liberates them.

While I agree that faith and practice are two different things they are also inseparable for many people. Faith without practice is pointless as is practice without faith.

You're right, homie, I am being dismissive about religion. No big deal. If it works for you, who am I to argue?

I have been a reader of this forum for several years, and a member for about one and a half, and I have never gotten the impression that this was a "fundamental premise". I must not have gotten that memo...


I would argue that only a small number of experienced DMT users would agree that DMT is inherently good and incapable of doing harm. I would agree that many people have that impression when they first begin reading about and considering the molecule (read: "Introduction Essays" subforum). But in my experience almost every experienced DMT user I have ever encountered has had the understanding that all psychedelics can be damaging to a person's mental health, if used irresponsibly or recklessly. And most of these people have been very quick to share that understanding with newcomers.

I am going to take a break from this thread for awhile.

for now:

I agree.

As for premise:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/About.aspx

I am curious as to who wrote that, because I really don't think it accurately depicts the beliefs or mindset of most of the members on this forum.

That was written a very long time ago and is more poetic expression than an actual description of a belief set shared by members of the site.

I like it though, and its also nice to see the old banner!

It sets a tone and is reflective of a theme of the site that reflects a belief that while not held by all is not uncommon either.

The poll results also illustrate this.

A large number of members hold the belief that DMT is sacred and that the experience is spiritual.

Likewise common terms are found, like hyperspace for example, that have become associated with DMT, such terms were absent from DMT related accounts 30 years ago.

This terminology reflects a codification.

Despite the stigma many users apply to the term and concept of religion, there is a religious tone that is found not only here but in many locations online and off that pertains to DMT, this includes the work of numerous authors, artists and individuals who attribute sanctity to DMT and testify of it's spiritual nature.

That is not to say that everyone feels that way, or that all members here find it spiritual, nor is it to dismiss the experiences of anyone.

It is however within reason to note that belief sets are emerging, and while many reject the label of religion, we still see religious values and concepts such as personal improvement, spiritual discovery, divine and sacred space, oneness etc being promulgated here in relation to the use of DMT.

The poll results clearly show that those who respond to the polls tend to share beliefs about DMT that are correlary with religious intent. For many DMT use is a ritualistic sacred thing, it informs them of their relationship to the universe, to self, many even claim that the use of DMT has enlightened them.

You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did that man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of Truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh, not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to let him organize it."

You may also want to consider that there are these emerging "belief sets" that may not have been present years ago, but it could also be because people are more vocal about certain aspects now than before with the advent of the internet [and the Nexus in particular]. This however doesn't negate the possibility that people were having these experiences years ago and simply weren't as vocal about them in the same way. Since much of the experience is ineffable, sometimes it takes someone to put a particular phenomenon to words in order for there to be a kind of vocabulary to work with so people can identify and verbalize what they've already been experiencing. On the other hand, you could be right, but I think this possibility should be considered as well.

Would you consider yoga to be an emerging religion? Many (but not all) people who practice yoga believe that it is a sacred, spiritual practice; and additionally believe that it can be used to inform one of their relationship to the universe and self. Some even claim that yoga can be used to achieve enlightenment. Many of these people, probably even most of those in the western world, do not practice yoga as part of any religious belief.

Again, this is not an attempt to discredit or disprove your theory. I am simply trying to develop a more thorough understanding of your perspective on the matter.

Regardless of who is "right" and who is "wrong" (if the matter can even be broken down so simply), I thank you for presenting such an interesting and engaging idea to be discussed, AKL.

No, I consider it a religious practice though and it is associated with religion in many cases.

There are so many forms of Yoga, like Japa yoga, Natya Yoga etc, that as a term it is not particularly specific, but these last two examples are Mantra and Dance yoga, both associated with deities. So while I would not say Yoga is a religion, it does have origin in religion and also plays key roles in specific religions.


I consider those beliefs religious, the idea something is sacred, spiritual, the use of a practice, believing that practice informs about the universe and or enlightens etc. To me those are all religious beliefs, far more so to me than belief in an invisible man in the sky, so to speak. I suppose from my perspective belief in a practice as spiritual is far more religious than belief in a deity or ontological claim.

^..yoga was an example of a practice, rather than religion, i would have used..

..it may be a matter of agreed definition or semantics, but i don't think there is a 'DMT religion'…
..in standard religious terms, DMT would be a sacrament…a means to gnosis..but the Religion is a set of beliefs defining reality and/or a collection of instructions for becoming aware of the 'true' nature of reality according to the religion..
likewise, i think most DMT interest is ultimately in what it does (how it alters the perception of reality, rather than the molecule as religion..

a religion purports to contain a complete set of instructions on the true nature of reality..
the DMT nexus, and other DMT net lore, are in my definitional mind, not a true religion, but a 'cult'…or a non-centralized collection of folkloric beliefs, a parcitice, like yoga..a mystery school perhaps, but not Religion..

in mean, if you can tell me who i am,
and vice versa,
then ye hath seen religion..

namaste

I totally agree, which is why the point I have been trying to make is that the religion is being codified. That is to say that it is coming into existence, slowly. I make no claim a choate religion exists at present.