Hey all, sooo i have tried a few different MHRB extractions following Nomans STB tek i believe and have generally always used Lighter fluid as my source of Naptha because of its availability in UK. I have had 'ok' results always getting between 0.7% and 1.2% yields using it.

After reading a few things, both positive and negative about using White Spirit i decided to experiment myself. The results i got were quite surprising. From two pulls on 100g MHRB i managed to get approx. 1.8g of pure white crystal. Now i'm not going to lie, using the stuff is an utter nightmare, it absolutely stinks and is mega slow at evaporating so it was freeze precipitated and then left to dry......for a long time. But the crystals where the whitest, biggest and most abundant i had ever gotten in a single yield.

Did i mention this stuff stinks? It took a good 6/7days for the smell to deteriorate fully. Now from my very brief understanding Aromatic Hydrocarbons contained in the Spirit such as Benzines are pretty nasty. Would evaporating fully the product be enough to make it safe to consume? I've read in other places that solvents such as Toluene and Xylene are also carcinogenic yet people highly rate them.

Does anybody know of a reason that i should not be using this for extraction? Has anyone had any good or bad extractions with the stuff?

Peoples thoughts/experiences much appreciated

White Spirit is OK, but of course it has this evaporation problem that you mentioned...it is the scourge of UK people who try extracting spice for their first time.

White spirit is a heavy naphtha with an average boiling point of 13-160C and won't evaporate as fast and nicely as light naphthas. And owning to this, few people do evaporation tests to see if there are non-volatile adulterants. Who really wants to stink his place for literally months? White spirit does not have any aromatic hydrocarbons, at least not in any amount that would stop spice from freeze-precipitating, but it all of course depepends on the brand.

But white spirit does work and it works nicely - it is the slow evaporation that is a pain in the ass You could switch to lighter fluid like ronsonol which evaporates faster and is closer to what the US crew often uses. As for the slow evaporation and risk of having white spirit lurking in the spice preparation, one method is to dissolve the crystals in acetone or alcohol and let it evaporate; this, done a few times will help the evaporation of hidden or trapped white spirit molecules and will give you a cleaner product.

I just read the msds for my locally available white spirit and it says 100% heavy naphtha... How would this compare to toluene in regards to amounts being pulled and "selectivity"?
Is light naphtha better or worse performance-wise?

And naphtha isn't sold under the name "shellite" in the UK like it is in Australia?

Does the MSDS give any more information than "100% heavy naphtha" apart from perhaps saying "hydrotreated" or "hydrodesulfurized"?
Different brands - not to mention different batches - of white spirit and turpentine substitute can have varying amounts of aromatics (toluene, xylene) present which will affect the outcome. This information is usually but not always alluded to on the container and sometimes the EINECS (or EC) number - in the UK/Europe - can give a bit of an indication if you look it up.

Not really the time of year for it but barbecue lighting fluid can have surprisingly good results for STB with freeze precip.

It seems to be the case that DMT may be more soluble in the heavier naphthas; I'm at least aware that a light petroleum ether (probably pentane/hexane/heptane blend) has proven to be a bit disappointing for pulling from STB. This is more from anecdotal reports than scientific comparison...



Benzine is an old name for light petroleum. Benzene, however, is pretty nasty carcinogenic stuff. Toluene and Xylene are nowhere near as carcinogenic as Benzene, but probably slightly more so than Benzine. Hence use of the term Benzine is somewhat discouraged, and correct spelling of chemical names is highly encouraged

I looked up the EG and CAS numbers mentioned on the msds...
CAS http://www.chemicalbook....opertiesCB2248176_EN.htm
EG http://echa.europa.eu/do..._for_white_spirit_en.pdf

The EG mentioned on my msds is 265-185-4

The boiling point on the msds is 200 °C... I think this is an aliphatic and not an aromatic, though from a distillation fraction with high b.p.'s as opposed to the low b.p. "light" naphtha?

I'll do an evap test before I'll consider using this, but my previous experiences with naphtha and acetone from this brand were very positive...

If it can pull almost as much as an aromatic yet can still be freeze-precipped it may be worth giving it a try as I'm looking for a solvent that doesn't require my basic solution to sit in a heat bath all day long

edit - mainly C7-C12 hydrocarbons if that means anything to anyone

This means, amongst myriad other things, heptanes, octanes, decanes, undecanes and dodecanes (n-alkanes and isoalkanes). Also includes toluene (C7) and xylene (C8 ) (aromatics). And maybe their cyclohexane equivalents (cycloalkanes). Ethylbenzene? Although that's probably too valuable to leave in the mix. Decahydronaphthalene (decalin) would also fall into this category. It's quite, er, general. Was this from the MSDS of the product you're using?

edit... viz, p.12 of the pdf:
"Naphtha (petroleum), hydrodesulphurized heavy.
A complex combination of hydrocarbons obtained from a catalytic hydrodesulfurization process. It consists of hydrocarbons having carbon numbers predominantly in the 7-12 range and boiling in the range of approximately 90 to 230°C."

"Molecular Formula:
CnH2n+2 (n-alkanes and isoalkanes)
CnH2n (cycloalkanes)
CnH2n-6 (aromatics), n>6 "

"Typical concentration (% w/w): 80-85% (by weight) aliphatic and alicyclic alkanes
15-20% (by weight) aromatic hydrocarbons"

p.15:
"Referring to the tables above, the following classified substances have been identified as constituents in white spirit: Benzene (CAS no. 71-43-2) approx. 0,001 %w/w, Toluene (CAS no.108-88-3) approx. 0,005%w/w, Ethylbenzene (100-41-4) approx.1.3 %w/w, Xylenes (CAS nos.1330-20-7, 108-38-3, 95-47-6 and 106-42-3) approx. 0.22-0.49 %w/w and Cumene (Isopropylbenzene) (CAS no.98-82-8 ) approx. 0.21 %w/w. However, the concentrations of all these constituents are very low, and will not by themselves imply classifications of the white spirit."

pp.13-14 of the pdf show typical concentrations of various hydrocarbons in white spirit. For those who really want to know!

"White spirit type 1 (the traditional white spirit) with a content of up to 25% of aromatics is produced from straight-run naphtha and straight-run kerosene, which are refinery process streams obtained from the distillation of crude oil. These fractions are subjected to fractional distillation into the appropriate boiling ranges of white spirit. A hydrodesulfurization process (removal of sulphur) is carried out either before or after the fractional distillation. White spirit that has not been treated beyond the process of distillation is termed straight-run white spirit (type 0)."
Just to clarify.

I found the msds in English (which differs slightly from the one in Dutch)...

http://www.quickfds.com/...8-14424-31106-017121.pdf

So yeah, it even says C9-C12... aromatics 2-25%...

I'll just stick with light petroleum ether and toluene then...

Thanks, man... I had already drawn the wrong conclusion and your post made me look into it further

There was this bit at the end:
"Most experience has been obtained from the monitoring of painters. This group has been very extensively studied because of high occupational exposure to organic solvents since the introduction of alkyd paint. Thus, painters constitute an occupational group that, to a great extent and in several countries (e.g., the Nordic countries) has been predominantly exposed to white spirit.

The painters most often complained about the following acute symptoms: irritation of eyes, nose and throat, reduced sense of taste, nausea, loss of appetite, headache, feeling of drunkenness, dizziness, and fatigue. Often these symptoms disappeared during exposure-free periods in weekends or holidays, but over the years these symptom-free periods got shorter and a chronic syndrome state developed.

The following chronic symptoms have been reported among house painters: memory impairment, forgetfulness, excessive fatigue, weariness, inability to concentrate, irritability, low frustration tolerance, headache, dizziness, apathy, lack of initiative, anxiety, nervousness, depressions, low spirits, bursts of perspiration, alcohol intolerance, abdominal pains, diarrhoea, nausea, impotence, reduced libido, blurred vision.

In severe chronic cases, fatigue and impairment of learning ability, concentration, memory and initiative may change the personality of the affected person in such a way that a normal working life as well as normal family life may be impossible. In several cases it has been described how these adverse effects resulted in change of occupation or in the awarding of a disability pension. A positive association between the awarding of disability pensions due to neuropsychological disorders and long-term solvent exposure as a painter (mainly exposure to white spirit) has been demonstrated in epidemiological studies."

Don't imagine your toluene will be any better, cos it ain't!

MSDS reads like a sensationalist news report sounds.
No wonder people who aren't used to handling chems on a daily basis have some apprehension.

I do apologise 'downwardsfromzero' for my spelling mistake. I understand it could make all the difference, especially if trying to give somebody advice. I found out about Bezines in a conversation i was having with somebody at work so did not know the correct spelling.

However, i did check the spelling on Google before i posted but unfortunately made the wrong assumption that it was spelt with an I instead of an E. As you well know it came up with a chemical that the petorleum based so again i assumed it to be right. But no...

You live, you learn