I am reading this and starting to think that my experience with passionflower alone is a strange one. I get passionflower from plants that grow wild in the woods around me. Many of my friends ask me to give them a tea made of it. All I do is a vine about 2 feet long, chop up the leaves and stem down to little tea sized pieces. Then I boil the whole thing in a bottle and a half of water. The next day I would give them the bottle and I would give them all the same warning about sipping it and giving them a list of foods that could possibly cause adverse reaction. They never listened and as a result the same thing would happen. They would chug the mixture. !5 minutes later they would start to tell me they felt funny. Slowly they would lose some motor function, there limbs would feel heavier. But they would have a positive, floaty feeling and no real desire to get up. They would often laugh at the slightest thing. This would continue for about 2 hours and then they would get motor function back, though the floating feeling stayed for a few more hours and they had an easier time focusing in other classes, and overall had a good day. One guy with severe depression used it to get through the day. He told me it made him feel a sort off happy energized, but also relaxed feeling. He used it to curb what would have turned into a drug addiction with other pills. After long I guess he found his bliss again. He know has a fiance and his dream job in the military.

There was never reported any major visual changes, other than everything appearing slightly brighter, and a bit wavy.

Even smoked it produced a nice but very mild change in headspace. More relaxed and clear.

I have only been able to produce this effect from very fresh passionflower. I would pick the leaves and they would be in a tea in 5 minutes. Some got hung in a dark place to dry to be smoked later, then sealed without air in a ziploc bag. All used withing a week or so.

thankyou MagicGing for the comments
and DamiasOfEgypt for those passiflora observations..

imPsimon wrote:
..it is fairly common to smoke passionflower leaf (as a relaxant, to ease nicotine withdrawl or as a cannabis substitute)
and also, as mentioned earlier in thread, it is possible to extract and vaporise passionflower extract..this can lead to quite profound effects..
..cyanogenic glycosides are destroyed by heating or drying, so no you won't be inhaling cyanide..!
.

nen, not to give you more work than you already have, but when you gather information on MAO actions, would you mind posting the IC50 values as well as any quantification of those substances whenever possible? Because then we can have a better picture on how effective those plants may be and what dosages we should be looking at.

Lets take pasiflora incarnata as an example, which you posted about in first page. You mention hultin publication talking about harmala amounts, can you please expand on the reference, who is hultin, where is this paper published? Are the amounts for all harmalas together, including the ones that arent effective MAOIs?

This paper here only claims for harmine 0.009 mg/g (dry) passiflora incarnata and 0.1 mg/g caerulea (dry). This would mean for a 200mg harmine dosage, you´d need like 20kgs dried incarnata or 2kgs dried caerulea, which is way too much, specially comparing the bioassay amounts you mentioned. Other harmala found, harmol, does not have good MAO-A action.

Of course, maybe this adds to the flavonoids, but do we have any info on amounts? You mentioned Apigenin and Kaempferol, do we know of amounts? The paper I linked earlier mensions vitexin, but vitexin seems to have potentially health hazards, specifically the swelling of thyreoid gland. Which leads me to another question, maybe it would be also interesting to quote the potential dangers (and maybe how to avoid them if we have such info like solubilities or how to break down the unwanted substances or whatever) in these passifloras and not just potential uses?

..the flavonoid IC-50s are in the verious references given in this post on page 1..yes, a bit of work to go through, but worth doing..have been very pressed for time lately..this is a very new area which obviously needs a lot more research, especially toxicologically..

Hultin means Eskil Hultin 'Partition Co-effecicients of Ether-extractable Passionflower Extracts' Acta Chemica Scandinavia 1965 in which he found harmol, harmaline, harman and harmalol..(attached below)
i thought i'd already attached it in this thread, but it was actually linked in https://www.dmt-nexus.me...m=284049&#post284049 ..0.2% (total alkaloid) is cited by S. Voogelbreinder (2009) and Gracie & Zarkov, from i assume another Hultin paper (or else Neu cited by Hultin) which i'm looking for now..i will try to clear this up..


more tests needed..especially P. incarnata extraction..
300 grams dried, as stated, of P. incarnata, had enough MAOI activity in 3 people (as i anecdotally reported) ..there was no apparently toxic action at this level..but it may well have been flavonoids responsible, not alkaloids..
.

Data on single compounds, while interesting, does not always provide a totally useful picture of how these things work in plants when in ratio with hundreds of other compounds as is the case in many herbs/plants..often synergistic compounds which modulate/buffer some of the effects of each compound are present. The same compound could act two different way in the body depending on what else is(or not) present.

..still awaiting time to accumulate more info..
the general figure i've had for years for harmalas in P. incarnata is 0.2%..that was how the oral activation dose experiment years back was arrived at..

..i just want to point out that in the paper you linked endlessness that, as in a few cases where very small amounts of harmalas are reported for passiflora, the actual methodology used would fail to efficiently extract the majority of alkaloids..imagine, with nexian-know-how, extracting B. caapi like they did P. inarnata..
from the paper:

..that this was the method would suggest to me that there are actually considerably larger amounts of harmalas in the material..

..actually the published extraction is quite exhaustive, suggesting that there are very few amounts of harmalas. If these passifloras were extracted as we do with caapi, there would most likely be a close-to-zero yield.


That is very true; but the IC50 and Ki values are a good starting point at understanding inhibition strength of compounds.

^..it's the initial stage..i find it hard to conceive that a 2x5minute dilute acid wash, without heat, would effectively capture all the alkaloids..especially from plant material..

Wow great work nen! I love passiflora tea it so calming and tastes great with a touch of sugar, and that theres harmalas present to extract is even better! A genuine option for Aus based people to make effective changa.

About Passiflora caerulea: I while ago i was taking venlafaxin. At that time i had a big passiflora caerulea, and because i had to move, i harvasted the plant to tea sometimes.
At the evening i make tea, containing out of valerian, chamomile, eschscholzia california. So i wanted to add passiflora caerulea, i looked at the internet, if there were reports of maoi and found nothing, sso i just tried.
Two weeks i drank passiflora caerulea (but at the morning), 2 teaspooons with boiling water.
The tea was harvested, while flowering in late summer, when it could have wearn fruits, because thats the time to harvest incarnata.
The effect was very comfortable, the firts week, then the effects stopped, dont know why.
I was calm, but not sedated. Not like anti-depressiv, i-want-to-do-lot-of-things, more like small calm-push, very nice. At that dosage there was as it seems no maoi, because i would have felt bad i think.

I have a Passionflower growing in my garden, I need to try and work out which type it is.

Just wondering, how is Aya/Pharma with Passion Flower added as an admixture kind of thing?

Taken from Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases, phytochemical data about P. edulis, P. foetida, P. incarnata, P. ligularis, P. mollissima, P. quadrangularis, and P. suberosa. ppm = parts per million & tr = trace

Ib, I think your post needs editing down a bit...

^lol
..great info and post Ib ! ..thank you for that...
the upper level given for P. edulis alkaloids in fruit (7000 ppm) is not too bad...

there are greatly differing reports of alkaloid levels in some of these species, and whether this is due to variety, seasonal variation or test methodology really needs clearing up..

Zuckerwasser..thanks for that report..strange that the effects diminished..tolerance? you're right there would probably not be maoi activity at that level, though mao inhibition doesn't necessarily make one 'feel bad' (unless it's an overdose) ..it's more to do with whatever amines are in your system that would lead to any unpleasant effects..

DreaMTripper..thanks..i love passiflora tea too..

Sabnock...Passionflower added to Aya makes the visions 'even more colourful'...

& the-badger, if you can't work out what your plant is from the pics in the thread, send us a photo when it flowers..

....A recent paper on Passiflora incarnata L. from the Journal of Ethnopharmacology.

..a great species, and a great website for Passiflora lovers is, as mentioned on p1,
Passiflora xiikzodz..found on Mayan temples and in rocky gullies nearby..
there are images of it, and many species, on the site http://www.bloomingpassion.com/

below is P. xiikzodz growing on the not-fully excavated temple ruin at Xunantunich in Belize..
no chemical studies i'm aware of..it's in the same sub-group as P. supeltata, which contains harman..

..thanks colour..always appreciate a passiflora paper
nice avatar, btw
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Thanks nen888... I think the paper in this thread would be more relevant in the Passifloras of Interest..(& MAOI plant Flavonoids) thread you started...

Maybe these papers might be of interest to some.


Cant access these though as I'm not a researcher.

http://www.researchgate....rom_Passiflora_incarnata

http://www.researchgate....of_Passiflora_incarnata_(passionflower)_herbal_tea_on_subjective_sleep_quality