For those of you that are unaware, I decided to send out a friendly alert signal. Please understand, I am not here to step on any toes, or cross any boundaries, you are all free to partake in whatever experience you choose to, and you are also free to disregard this warning. I just found it essential to share it, because I paid with my own blood for this truth, from a decade worth of personal experimentation, so I hope it does not get disregarded lightly.

Mushrooms are absolutely natural, they are God-given, provided by nature. Their application as etheogens, however, is limited. They can only give you illusions, by their very nature. The essence of all mushroom trips is illusory, that is all they are capable of providing. Mental and imaginary illusions; i.e. fantasy, which is in it's very nature not real (or, in other words, it's a real experience of illusion). So, then, what is the value, or significance of this illusion, and how to use it rightly?

Please understand that the illusion, in its very nature, is infinitely illusive. It's like a mirage, it shows one thing, but fails to provide the truthful validity of what it shows... it's like seeing a mirage of an oasis when you're thirsty and stuck in the desert... your mind is capable of projecting all sorts of things, but the false always remains false. A true oasis will quench your thirst; mushrooms cannot quench the true thirst, but they can provide an illusion.

That illusion is absolutely vital to understand, for those of you that choose to partake in the experience. The illusion shows you the false, the essense of illusion; of what an illusion truly and really is. In order to know the real, it helps to know the false. In order to know what truth is, it helps to know what "untruth" is. It's not essential, of course, to know the false in order to know the real, but it can be beneficial.

So, basic point is, use responsibly. Don't over-indulge in illusions, because over-indulgence in illusions can be confusing to the point of mental insanity (very extreme cases, but they do exist, and should be avoided). There's a healthy way to experience the trip, but then once you see it, and know it, leave it alone and move along please. Otherwise it will just create more illusions and more falsity, and one can get lost down the rabbit hole. Please don't get lost down the rabbit hole, always seek that which is intrinsically real, true, and valid.

The same basic thing applies to LSD. My experience is fairly limited, I've never tried cacti or peyote for example, so I cannot confirm or deny if this also extends to those specific etheogens.

Thank you for reading and understanding. God bless

I respect your stance brokenChild

What isn't an illusion? And "how do you know"?

I think it is not constructive to write such things using absolute terms ("The essence of all mushroom trips is illusory" ), instead of expressing it more clearly as a personal speculation or opinion, or as something that can possibly happen to others. Even if it was in such a way for you, how can you know that is how it is for everybody at all times?

Also, why do you single out mushrooms?

I think every psychedelic can potentially generate delusional thoughts and illusions, as well as enlightening truthful deep thoughts and experiences. I think one can learn to deal with it by taking care of set and setting, and most importantly, the integration afterwards. Even what seems like a temporary illusion can be a source of great learning when looking at it from a broader vantage point.

If mushroom effects were only illusions, how comes there are countless cases of tangible positive changes in their lives from it? What do you make of Rolland Griffiths research and how the relatives and friends of the participants confirmed those who had taken mushrooms had indeed changed in positive ways? What about the Moreno case study of the kid who had body dismorphic disorder and had an unreasonable self-image and fear of how his nose looked, but actually for the first time in his life saw the true image of himself as a normal person, after taking mushrooms?

Not saying there aren`t probably other countless cases of people deluding themselves during mushroom effects or after-effects, but to me it`s clear it`s not only delusions in all cases.

YOU have found mushrooms to not have entheogenic value. I myself have and find the experience very rewarding spiritually just as much as dmt has. So I'm sorry that they haven't done that for you maybe you should experiment with different set and setting or something.

I have not said that at all. I never said that mushrooms have NO etheogenic value. I specifically stated their etheogenic value is limited. DMT is a truer experience, at least when it comes to ayahuasca. I have never tried spice purely on its own so I cannot speak to that extent.

Also I have experimented with plenty sets and settings when it comes to mushrooms. 10 years is plenty enough, in various locations, different kinds, varying doses, under many different conditions. My experience is my validity, feel free to try it and see for yourself. I'm not saying anything bad about mushrooms, I'm simply pointing out the facticity of the experience.

Because that's the way it is. Think of it like this; the essence of all poisons, is poisonous. That's the very nature, the very root of poison. The effects of it. It doesn't matter if you're hindu, or christian, or black, or white, or asian, or male, or female... if you take poison, it will have a poisonous effect on you. This is a universal truth. The same I have found to be true about mushrooms, feel free to try it for yourself


You are ABSOLUTELY right, but keep in mind an illusion is still an illusion... tho even illusions can be enlightening. Some level of truth, or understanding, is hidden in all experiences; good and bad. The trick is seeing and extracting the truth from the experience (or, the facticity from the experience, that truth which it is capable of providing)


Again, you're absolutely right, it can be a positive experience. This is what I mean that it can absolutely be beneficial to try them. But to continue to take them to no end indefinitely, is damaging. Try them to get the message, but once you've gotten the message please hang up the phone; anything further will be damaging. I took them with full respect, and I can absolutely, without a doubt, say that they have changed my life in a positive way. But, I also knew when to quit. There comes a point where enough is enough, and anything past enough is damaging. That's all I was trying to express here. Thank you kindly for contributing, your thoughts and viewpoints are priceless and hold a lot of truth to them. Much respect

But that is your subjective pov. I do not agree with you that it is an illusion. Also your assessment that continuing the use of mushrooms is damaging is false. You are not stating anything to actually support such claims to be true. Maybe it is damaging for you because of this reason or that but getting the message... There's is no ultimate message. Only what you feel you need.

Do what you need but I see a lot of holes in your conjecture.

Simply put :

I disagree.

my pov. is subjective to my experience, it cannot be otherwise. My assessment of continuing mushrooms can be damaging can be simply supported; look at Ram Dass for example, he's had countless (hundreds) of LSD and mushroom trips; ended up with a stroke. Can I medically varify that the stroke was due to extensive use of those etheogens? Not with any "undisputed" evidence without doing countless studies on different human trials which would show consistently the same result; but doing so would be unethical and immoral, damaging to humanity. It certainly does make one wonder tho; full respect to Ram Dass however, he was a wonderful guy. Just my own personal speculation and respect for personal health, as well as the health of others.

Also, as far as your disagreement of it being an illusion; feel free to disagree, but the fact remains that it IS an illusion. However, the whole truth is that it is a REAL experience of an illusion, so it has realistic validity and application, as well as some truth to it.



Feel free to disagree, try it and see for yourself

^^lulz

Another thing I feel compelled to mention, which is a truth that other people paid for with their own blood; absolutely true story. I had friends of the family, years ago, that went mushroom picking and ended up with psylocybin shroomies (I'm originally from the Ukraine, and we're big on healthy mushroom diet, normal, edible mushrooms... everything from mushroom soup, to mushroom gravy, any form of mushroom delicassy (sp?) has been tried... anyway they mistook them for normal mushrooms... ended up eating a bunch, making a soup out of it, and quite literally went crazy and died. Again, this is just an extreme case, but it did happen and is absolutely true and accurate to life.

On that same note, I once ate 7 grams, weighed in around 150lbs in college, got them from a friend of a friend, twice my normal standard dose, ended up tripping for 12 hours straight and almost lost it and killed myself. Also true story. I've tripped since then, afterwards, and the effects of that experience were temporarily traumatic, but I got over it and lived on to tell the tale, albeit never ate that high of a dose ever again. Everything is relative tho, some people may be able to safely and enjoyably withstand that dose, others may be more sensitive. Fair warning, that's all I was attempting to provide. They do have their uses and applications, some of which are very beneficial, but as any other etheogen should be treated with the utmost respect. Can be absolutely enjoyed, I'm not trying to make it a serious issue, just do so responsibly.

Also this link may help;

http://o-meditation.com/...drugs-is-spiritual-osho/

It's also a proven fact that 100% of people who had strokes drank water.

It's also a proven fact that too much water intake can lead to brain swelling and cell death, and real death. Google it. I'm not making an undeniable assertion with Ram Dass and his stroke, I'm simply stating a cautionary speculation that deserves to be considered. I don't know for 100% the extent of that truth, but I do feel it's worth mentioning

^ as if we don't know that? This whole community is dedicated to the respectful, responsible, and safe use of psychedelics. Mistakes and dumb overdoses happen, so do bad set/settings, and so on - all of which can lead to bad scenarios. This is well known but in no way lends support for your claim, so i have no idea where you are going with that.

To be brutally honest I found your arguments extremely narrow minded, littered with holes, annoyingly absolutist, and just all around elementary. Anyone can take mushrooms any number of times, and come up with any number of theories about what is going on there. That is fine. But to declare that you have ascertained the absolute truth of the matter, which you then can generalize everybody's experience over, is pathetic and contrary to both our own experiences, their traditional use, and the factual scientific data of recent times. It is also especially bizarre considering how the main message of peoples experiences is that "they don't know shit", and to think you have it all figured out is to actually have very little figured out. Yes, they can induce delusions/illusions at times.. But to zero in on this aspect of the experience and effectively inflate it so that it is the whole, obscuring all the other facets of the experience, is silly.

And the comment on Ram Dass... Are you serious? Take some time and think logically about what you are saying mate. It makes absolutely zero sense.

Funny that, unless this happened in 1924, it was never reported.

3 deaths attributed to psilocybin mushrooms, 3.

https://www.erowid.org/p...ms/mushrooms_death.shtml

It's just a friendly warning that deserves proper respect is all. I'm not trying to debunk or deny anyone else's experience, I'm simply sharing my own. If it's not true to your experience then so be it; things simply are, or they are not. It's up to each and every one to take all of the information into consideration and deduce their own personal conclusions. I'm not here to preach anything, simply sharing what I myself stumbled upon.

And yes, absolutely serious about Ram Dass; again tho I don't know to what extent the connection can be made from his countless trips to his stroke; I'm simply stating my speculation to be taken into proper consideration; feel free to discard it from your mind if you don't find that it applies. To me it's at least worth considering.

I will mention this tho, I've done at least 25-30 trips on psylocybin/LSD in my 10 years, and that doesn't seem to have any negative lasting effects on health that I can tell, so even within a generous measure they seem to be safe on the whole if properly respected. And the absolute truth I am asserting is that they only provide mental illusions; expressions of conscious fantasy; "projections" in other terms. Feel free to substantiate or debunk that claim in your own experiences



I'm reporting to you my direct experience with the couple, I'm not sure to what extent it's claimed or logged since this was in a fairly underdeveloped village, and also in the Ukraine, but the story is absolutely true, feel free to not believe it tho. Even the simple consideration of it stands on its own validity; if you eat a pound of hallucinogenic mushrooms, in a soup, thinking they are just regular normal edible mushrooms, you will die or end up in a psych ward. This is a simple fact of life, it needs no other supporting evidence.

Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing

One more thing that everybody seems to be invariably missing;

hallucinogenic mushrooms; etymology derived from hallucination;

hal·lu·ci·na·tion
həˌlo͞osənˈāSHən/Submit
noun
1.
an experience involving the apparent perception of something not present.
"he continued to suffer from horrific hallucinations"
synonyms: delusion, illusion, figment of the imagination, vision, apparition, mirage, chimera, fantasy;



That should about back it up, IMHO

hallucination from the latin Alucinari, "to wander in the mind"

make your world bigger, not smaller. Listen!!! it is all around you.