Looks like your right. If you vape until there's nothing to vape all of a sudden you get this real harsh hit. Identical to what I was experiencing. I wonder how the heck that's happening.

I'm going to mess around with different voltages to but I'm pretty sure 4.1 is where it's at. This harshness is leaving me with more than a bad taste in my throat.

Glad to hear of your success anrchy!

I had another idea along the lines of an e-cig but a little different.. I remember reading a while ago about a portable alcohol nebulizer that was on the market and was wondering if that might work for inhaling the chosen alkaloids.

It was reasonably priced, about the size of an inhaler and only held up to 1 shot, but if you dissolve your alkaloids in something like high proof ethanol I think it might work pretty well. I was actually thinking of pursing it a while ago but would like to get the thoughts of people here since you all seem to know the most about liquid vaping alkaloids.

I thought I read somewhere that nebulizers have used or do use PG as the carrier. I could be wrong. There is a thread somewhere that already has started to idealize the use of a nebulizer but I'm not sure how far it got.

I'm at the point where I would need to do another extraction before dumping anymore dmt into a project like this. I do want to say this though...

If I can eliminate the harshness I would definitely be able to take a single inhalation with my current setup that would push me farther than I want to go as far as dose size goes. I've done a 50 and I don't wish to return to that level again.

I did not put all of my solution in the tank. I will when I get home. My solution doesn't appear to have thickened up all that much but I cannot rule out the possibility that it might be the cause of my problem. However my goal is to achieve proper vaporization with out having to add anymore chemicals. Just dmt and PG.

I read the nebulizer thread to the end recently, and the idea seemed pretty much dead.

Maybe the wick thing could be related to viscosity slowing the flow through wick, but doesn't seem quite right that the wick could dry up in less than a hit. I guess people are always saying DMT tends to run away from heat, so maybe that is contributing somehow. Regretting that I didn't order any VG w/ my PG for viscosity experiments. The good news is that you can change the wick material out (with some cartomizers), so we may be able to find ideas for better wick materials in ecig forums.

Would a ceramic wick be anything to look at?

I don't know anything about this subject, but have run across ceramic wicks on the internet somewhere before and thought I'd mention it. Just to make sure I was right, I did a Google search and saw this page reviewing the use/performance of ceramic wicks: http://www.vapesquad.com...w-justified-is-the-hype/

Basically says there's not much difference from steel wicks, aside from an easier install; and that they think "mesh will remain king." But ceramic seems to be more resistant to heat than some metals, so maybe it would stand up to dry hits better than steel mesh...?

From the Ceramic Engineering Wikipedia page: "As ceramics are heat resistant, they can be used for many tasks that materials like metal and polymers are unsuitable for."

My tank is a little different style so I'm not sure. It looks like it's made of fabric but I don't really know.

I'm wondering if I should dilute my solution a little. Or maybe add some flavor? Maybe since I didn't put all the solution in its having a hard time wicking the liquid to the coil.

This is the tank I'm using... http://www.kangeronline....kanger-e-vod-clearomizer


It seems my atomizer head is exactly the same as in the other kanger tanks, like the protank 2. I just read they also recommend that my tank be filled above 1/3 full to minimize leaks and something else.

I think I'll go ahead and fill it with the rest and hope for the best.

I have not gotten to concentrations high enough where harshness has been an issue, but I could see how the increasing viscosity might make it tougher to wick up fast enough. I remember seeing someone on these forums claim that he had used a wickless hash oil atomizer successfully for spice. I believe it was this one: http://www.gentlemansvap...oducts/hash-oil-atomizer

IIRC, he just put the spice in directly with no carrier fluid.

I figure you might as well dilute the solution to the point where you can get just as far as you'd want to go on one lung-full. Hopefully filling the tank all the way helps too. And I bought menthol flavoring add to mine because the only time I successfully inhaled a cigarette it was menthol.

That is strange style of tank in the ceramic wick link, but it looks like it works pretty much the same. The wick material can be a wide range of things: a simple piece of yarn, silica wick, a roll of metal mesh, etc, but cartomizers typically come with a yarn type one. Right now it seems like stainless steel mesh is the best bet, but it sounds like it can be a bit tricky to setup since you have to roll it and then cause a layer of carbon to get built up on it so that it is electrically insulated from the heating element wire that wraps around the wick. However, if the problem is only due to viscosity, maybe there's a simpler, more fabric like solution that wicks faster or something. Or maybe there's one that just won't be as harsh when dry burned and won't be too unhealthy. Bamboo thread maybe? It'll just add a hint of bamboo changa to the mix.

Based on my experience though, I don't think I'll personally have to mess with the wick at the concentrations that will work for me. However, I have dreams of eventually having a separate tank of a pure NMT solution, and since the dosing is higher for that, I may need to then.

This would then be VERY difficult to keep from burning the DMT I would think.

The issues with this device so far will make it unappealing to most if you cannot achieve breakthrough level doses easily without harshness. I will resume experimentation tomorrow. Also possibly with someone else to also test it out with me.



Tomorrow's tests will include:

1) Dropping 1 drop of solution directly onto a separate atomizer I have (the one used earlier in the experiment)

2) Filling tank with a more appropriate amount, lowering voltage to 3.7, testing, and posting results.

I checked the temperature of the stamped atomizer with a thermocouple and it only reached 360f (182c) which I believe is fine. That's at 3.5v for a 3ohm atomizer. As we don't have a confirmed vape point for dmt.

I won't be able to check the tank however. Rifle didn't you say you found the temp that your protank achieved? As my coil head is the same they would be equal.

I think it's possible that the harshness could also be burnt PG.

Looking forward to hearing about your results. Thanks for doing this, it is really helpful for the whole community. Next time I will try and measure things out precisely so I can add to your data.

Not I, sir. Definitely don't have equipment to do that, but my one successful session was with my battery set on 3.2v. Good idea to try a drop on the atomizer, btw, seems like a good way to figure out if the wick has anything to do with this.

Anrchy, I don't know how much success that you will have eliminating the harshness from the vapor. Based on my experience with nicotine liquid, it doesn't really seem to matter what carrier or mix of them that you choose to use, they all have a certain harshness to them that is just part of their nature. I asked my friend who is an E-cig freak and he has been having the same issue trying to find a smooth mix for nicotine alone without much luck.

I remember that you said that you had a G-pen or ripoff one, right? If I were you I'd try mixing a highly saturated solution of 190° and the DMT and just using the dab tool or an eyedropper to drop it right on the heating element like they recommend for viscous or solid honey oils.

I'm very interested in your results so far, very informative. If you still don't have any luck eliminating the harshness, I'd suggest the something like the omicron vape which doesn't require any liquid and has given great results with vaping all sorts of alkaloids and other substances.

I definitely hope that you find a mix that works though, good luck!

The only other thing is I really dont want to invest too much more money into this and the omicron is a little spendy. I have a couple things going on right now that are going to require some cash out of my pocket and my main thing was to hopefully find a fairly cheap method of vaping with an ecig. I also need to acquire a little more patience with this. I hate to think that I need to order a couple more atomizers of different styles to figure this out. But if thats the case and it doesn't cut too much into my wallet I guess I'm going to have to.

I am going to make a trip to the store tomorrow and see what people carry. I have noticed though that in store E-cig products are usually much more expensive (sometimes twice the price) than online. Which sucks. v-ecigs.com has 2-3 day shipping though. When I ordered from them it was on the 2nd and I got it in the mail on the 4th (awesome!). So I have some different options.

I really want to see this through ultimately. If it works or doesn't I plan on creating a separate thread with all the available info compiled together so this can finally be shown with accurate, tested, and proven facts about why and how. ALSO that way as new products come out that MAY work, we have the available information in one neat thread that can be updated accurately.

I don't know a whole lot about the different parts and what is compatible with what, but when I was looking/reading around I found a few people suggesting ceramic wicks which are porous rather than using a fiber wick to pull the liquid up into the element. I haven't seen many around or really been able to find them, but definitely seems like a good way to go.

I've also seen some cheap chinese ones around the flea market and such which use a refillable metal piece that is heated similar to the omicron but for much cheaper. Supply of anything other than the standard wick e-cigs seems to be erratic at best where I live so all I can say is good luck and I hope you find something that works well when you are out shopping.

Bad news bear. It's now confirmed that it was in fact the basic solution that causes the plastic parts of the tanks to start cracking. I have not been able to continue my tests with the tank today. It had been sitting safely in an upright position since the last time i used it and upon inspection the plastic near the top where the mouth piece is, small to large fractures are forming and have actually gotten worse in the last few hours.

On top of that the stamped atomizer I have either is garbage now or might be able to be cleaned. I do not know yet what happened but there is a strange harsh taste that comes from it as soon as it starts to heat up. The smell/taste is not of burnt DMT. This is still not confirmation that this method does not work, but it still stands that an E-cig device has only proven to be useful for low non-breakthrough doses.

I'm going to take some time to figure out what route to take next.

03:00:26 ‹benzyme› in high pH, DMT isn't going to do anything but bump shoulders with other molecules

03:00:38 ‹anrchy› well what else could it be

03:01:43 ‹benzyme› the nonpolar solvents

03:04:07 ‹benzyme› high pH's won't do that to plastics

so possible adulterants from the pull phase in the DMT can cause this...?

Rifle what do you think?

My initial reaction is no way. I don't see how there could be enough of anything besides PG and alkaloids in there to have an effect.

The mouth plastic bits are probably polycarbonate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate

Wikipedia says it has poor resistance to acids and good-poor resistance to alkalis, so that seems to leave the door open for a basic solution to do some damage. It also says it has good-fair resistance to oils and oils are nonpolar, so I'm not sure benzyme's assertion is correct, but perhaps he could elaborate.

Regardless, I don't know of anyone that has put as highly concentrated of solutions in plastic cartomizers besides us, so we're 2 for 2 with concentrated solutions of PG/DMT cracking them. I think it makes sense to just go with glass. Even before all this it weirded me out they'd make them out of plastic in the first place with all the heat and chemicals in them. The glass ones really don't cost that much more.

Anyways, I'm all set to start back down this path myself on Tuesday, so we'll see how it goes.

Ok so "I'm back in the saddle again... I'm back!"

Sorry had that song stuck in my head. I now have a Kamry globe atomizer and a Kanger Protank II in my possession. For now I am going to be using the protank II strictly for assisting me in quitting smoking, im using zero nicotine PG/VG if anyone was wondering and also since rifle has that one covered anyways. Definitely a nice quality piece of glass and metal!

I will be resuming trials using the Kamry Globe atomizer, which I believe has some potential. A friend uses it for BHO wax and oils. Here it is...



Now it is basically a small ceramic cup with a wick wrapped in coil passing through 2 slots cut into the ceramic. Liquid can be dropped right into the cup or onto the wick. Don't know yet if I would be able to just fill the cup or what but then any tilting would cause spillage. I am also curious to see if straight freebase can be placed in the cup and wsuccesfully vaporized. So we will see. I have a bit of a headache today from a mushroom trip last night so I won't be testing it out quite yet. All in due time my friends.