Hello everyone. I have done Aya many times but recently it has been causing me sleep problems in the weeks after.

I did a 3 day retreat in July and afterwards for about 6 weeks I had terrible sleep. Continually waking up, lots of dreaming, very little deep sleep. I would wake in the morning and feel like I hadn't slept.

I use a sleep tracker on my phone that monitors my movement during the night and tracks sleep patterns. My deep sleep percentages would be really low with lots of movement during the night.

When I sleep bad I get anxiety and then anxiety makes my sleep worse. It's a vicious cycle. About 6 weeks after I started doing Trauma Release Exercise before bed and this seemed to solve the problem.

I just got back from two back to back 3 day retreats and it's happening again. The last 2 nights have been horrendous. I'm full of anxiety all the time. I'm trying the Trauma Release Exercise but it's not doing the job right now.

Anyone else experience this or have any ideas for a remedy?

It's possible that Aya is messing up with your brain a bit, but I don't believe that it is the cause. Rather, it's the trigger. Anxiety and bad sleep (including nightmares) can be minimized with a gluten-free diet, and going out to see the sun daily. I personally have had great results with that. Another thing that fixed sleep problems for me even faster than a gluten-free diet was going... camping. Being outside all day pushes the body to naturally want to sleep by 9 PM. I slept like a baby while on camping, and for a week after that. Then, I had to either push myself to go out and see the sun more during the day, or... go back camping. LOL. Vicious cycle, but good for me nonetheless. If you're interested on the lifestyle regiment I follow, here it is: http://eugenia.queru.com...-depression-and-anxiety/

Handel, don't you think you're peddling the gluten-free paleo keto etc diets a bit too much?

Ok, I will refrain from mentioning it again here, unless there's a specific post about it. I understand that many people don't believe that a diet has the ability to heal, so it can rub them the wrong way when they see it posted a bit too much. However, the linked post was not just about a healthy diet, but also about daily sun, exercise etc. Everything that makes a person healthy, that is. I genuinely want to help people, having suffered myself from multiple issues for years and suddenly finding back my health. But since this type of info is not viewed well by all, I'll refrain from posting it, and I would just direct the OP to camping. Camping worked for me and my sleep faster than any diet ever did. This time I will just link to Scientific American: http://www.scientificame...rouble-sleeping-go-campi

I have some input, but I'm not sure to what extent it will help you specifically. In any case, worth a shot (depression and anxiety are simply polar opposites so it's good to take a look at both);

it's important to understand what depression actually is. There are two basic expressions of the same issue that keeps someone from fully enjoying their life, one is being psychologically stuck in the past, some traumatic event or encounter, which keeps the conscious mind looping around that past trauma because the event wasn't properly integrated into conscious response. The opposing reaction of basically the same function, or the same expression just placed in a different direction, is anxiety. Anxiety is the desire, or conscious energy moving into the future... so in the cases of you doing something in the present, while dreaming about doing something different in the future at the same time (or wanting to be something different in the future which you are not in the present), will create a sense of anxiety. The anxiety is created out of this tension of the present moment, and the desire to do something different in the future which you are not doing in the present; or basically put the desire to be what you are not in the present; the tension between that what you are (whatever it is you are doing and the state that you are in, in this present moment) and the desire to become something different than what you already are (so, the desire to be something completely different or "improved", somewhere in the future, that is in opposition to that which you are in the present) creates a split; this split is between being, and becoming. What you are, and what you want to be... this split creates anxiety.

So, depression is the psychological hang-up in the past somewhere, and because you keep dragging the past into the present, it keeps spoiling your enjoyment of the present moment, because your consciousness is stuck in trying to integrate the past properly, so cannot enjoy the present without resolving the issues from the past. Anxiety is the desire to be somewhere in the future doing something else that is different from what you are doing in the present moment; or the desire to be something different somewhere in the future than what you already are in the present; the split between being and becoming creates anxiety.

And don't worry about the future, the future always takes care of itself, all you have to ever really do is just fix the past issues, and be fully conscious in the present moment, in whatsoever you're doing, and put your total energy into doing that, or being in the present. The future always comes, but you're only ever given one moment at a time, and the future always comes as the present.... so, when tomorrow comes, for you it will be "now" when it arrives to you, so in a way there really never is a "tomorrow", it's just a figure of speech, or a reference. All you can ever really do can only be done in the present moment that you're in, you can't ever jump ahead into the future, you can only be present, and let it arrive, while you presently do (or not do) whatever it is that you're doing (or not doing, action/inaction); in other words, just be.

Hope that helped someone somewhat

maybe these can help;

Dealing with painful memories

and

Dynamic Meditation

Thank you and apologies if I sounded blunt in my previous post!

I concur with the idea of camping but wouldn't it be a bit of a stretch for us to suggest camping amidst the winter's coming? I have always found winter camping a bit more taxing (sleep-wise), since you're more likely to wake up during the night freezing in which case it is not easy to get back to sleep.

^^I'm going camping during the day (today actually), sleep at home at night where it's warm; best of both worlds Thanks both for the suggestions

No problem, it's cool. Παν μέτρον άριστον, έτσι και αλλιώς.



Winter camping requires special camping equipment, a different tent, sleeping bag etc. than the one used in summer. Indeed, this idea works better in Summer, since the sun is the reason why it makes camping work for sleep.

This happened to me for over a month after having my highest dose of ayahuasca, and it was a very traumatizing experience. I could not sleep much at all at night, but I would lay in bed for hours in the middle of the night sort of in hypnogogic states or the lightest stages of dreaming. Basically I would lay there and trip all night long as if I had taken some weird beta carbololines. I would have visions and OBE's. The thing is that I never wanted any of it at the time. I was getting so run down from sleep deprivation that I began to feel weird like that during the daytime as well, with increased anxiety and when I lay down to rest during the day the same trip would start to happen and I would experience the weirdest lucid dreams and OBE's but not get any rest. Note that I never got psychotic at all. I never was unable to distinguish between my weird dreams/visions and reality and I did learn from some of these experiences.

I don't know if it was just the absurdly high dose of beta carbolines(with DMT) and trauma from resulting trip, or the fact that I was on a very limited raw vegan diet. I do know that when I began to eat lots of meat and eggs and took melatonin, B12 and lots of ascorbic acid and fish oils for a while I began to feel better almost instantly and I have drunk lots of ayahuasca sinse then and not had that happen to me ever again..although harmalas can keep you up at night right after an experience, as there can be a stimulating effect that lingers for a number of hours after, especially with DMT added.

In my case I think it was a mix of being malnourished/run down and then having this really massive dose of ayahuasca traumatize me and stress my adrenals etc and just make me even more run down and depleted. One thing I always make sure to do now is to be properly nourished in order to be able to support my brain in those states and afterwords.

Go to google and find [deep sleep] gell caps and tincher..
I had some insomnia that wouldent stop and this all natural fresh liquid herbal sleep aid was awesome!
I usually take a little melatonin at bedtime then [one deep sleep gell cap].. one hour before bed... and one cap at bedtime..
This natural sleep aid doesnt intearfear with REM sleep at all..
It contains fresh liquid herbs like.. passion flower...Valerian root...camamile...orange peal...and other fresh herbs..
I find its benifits to be ...all over better sleep..stay asleep longer...return to sleep was easy!..increased dreaming..sometimes leading to a lucid dream..
Feeling rested and refreshed in morning no groggy effect like many over the counter sleep aids cause...
It doesnt imeadiatly knock you out.. but you slip into sleep so smoothly and stay sleeping longer..
You might say it re trains your mind and body to sleep normal again..
give it a try...

For me its been more of the opposite, although I think my frequent high dosing of melatonin may be a factor (which i wont get into here, but it might help you. or it might not). But even before that, I would still sleep like a baby in the weeks after aya, even when i was taking it often. I'm a bizarre sleeper though. I can go 30+ hours without sleep and feel pretty good, sometimes even better. Or 4 hours a night all week and feel fine. But, if i want, i could fall asleep within the next 10 minutes after typing this. Even if I'm going into harmala-type states at night i still can fall asleep really quickly.

Its hard to say what the cause is in your case since there could be several interconnected factors.

Do you drink a lot of coffee? Or junk/processed foods? A lot of people report better sleep after getting partially or fully off of those two. And they are often linked to anxiety and an unbalanced mental state as well.

I would just take a broad approach at balancing your mental state...Get into yoga, meditation, exercise, healthy food, more water, time in nature, reading, anything you love really. Meditating especially right before bed can also help some get a fuller nights sleep.

I would not trust any phone app to really tell you how much REM sleep you are getting. Is it strapped to your head or something? What about the bad cell phone waves that are emitted, could that be your issue? (not sure if it true or not but I read to not have your cell anywhere around you when sleeping)

Next I would remove any belief that we NEED 8 hours of consistent sleep. Less than a few hundred years ago, us humans had two sleeps over one 8 hour long sleep. There are many many different sleep patterns and maybe you need to find a new one that works for you. Everything changes maybe this is just a new thing your body is switching up.

Buckminister fuller lived a long life on two hours of sleep with the polyphasic sleep pattern. Check these out http://www.collective-ev...-10-hours-is-not-needed/

"Next I would remove any belief that we NEED 8 hours of consistent sleep. Less than a few hundred years ago, us humans had two sleeps over one 8 hour long sleep."

The problem with that is that you cant really map that over our experience today due to multiple lifestyle factors that all compound the situation. Not long ago we lacked electrical lighting..and now everything has gone fluorescent. We have EM fields we are exposed to all day long, our food is far less nutrient dense, we often live busy stressful lives..noise pollution. It is totally different from how we evolved. Not long ago we were living without any of these things, and all we had was candle light or firelight, which gives off a different spectrum that does not inhibit melatonin production. The quality of our sleep and qeneral hormone levels etc were likely to have been different back then.

You cant extrapolate from that and then just say that because people only slept so much back then that we only need to do like they did. The situation is entirely different and many people have chronic fatigue problems etc and definatly need to be getting as much rest as they need to get well.

I know that I feel like shit if I don't sleep 8 hours every night.

Reading Pharmer's post didn't give me the impression that she was recommending that he only needs to "do like they did" and get 2 separate chunks of sleep jamie. Rather that there is many different kinds of people with many different kinds of sleep patterns, which can fluctuate in ones life... and that clinging to the notion that we all need 8 hours of straight sleep is might be misguided. Which is why she said "There are many many different sleep patterns and maybe you need to find a new one that works for you"

I don't know what the OP needs in order to find balance in his life. But regardless there is certainly many different sleep patterns that fit into a modern western lifestyle besides just the conventional model of 8 hours that we've inherited.

Daytime Ayahuasca administration modulates REM and slow-wave sleep in healthy volunteers

http://upcommons.upc.edu...93/1/barbanoj%202008.pdf



Hooray, that's what the Aya is supposed to do (according to the scientific article I've read the other day). To give you visions, because the daytime is deceptive and only the dreamworld shows you the true nature of reality.

I'm no expert on this. Maybe take some sleep pills, like Valerian/Hops or Zopiclone for a continuous sleep? But this could also mess up the Aya spirit..

Does anyone that has posted in this thread feel like taking potent drugs to sleep after an episode of insomnia like described by a number of posters above--does it feel like an unnatural, brute force tactic to you? Because to me it kind of does. I respect my need for sleep, and try to remain keenly aware of how it affects my mood, decision making, memory, and so on. But in the end, part of me feels that taking a sledgehammer substance to induce sleep almost defeats part of the necessary integration process.

Example sledgehammers include benadryl, trazodone, benzodiazepines, phenibut, etc.


When I find myself struggling with sleep, or sleeping lightly and having lucid dreams, OBE's, and so on, I find one of the best techniques is to meditate before bed using a blindfold and binaural beats. It doesn't seem to matter what binaural beats audio you use so long as it allows you to clear your mind and slip into a trance-like state. When I'm desperate for sleep, I will sit and meditate until I feel my body start to slump into a more tired state. The moment I feel that I get up, go lay in bed, and sleep without doing anything else, not even turning on a single light. So far, this technique has worked well for me.

Jamie-it was used as one of the few points I mentioned as an option....not really sue how you came up with your comment but I will work to come up with better wording to get my meaning across.

I hear issues all the time where people think they need to be a certain way. When in fact this is not the case. Be your own self and walk your own path because no one way will work for us all. Needing 8 hours of sleep every day is just a belief that many others just choose to ignore-live listening to their own bodies over what is the norm.

I know personally that the more sleep I get-the more tired I feel and I am not alone with this. Chemically speaking 2-3 hours of good sleep is all anyone really "needs". In an 8 hour time frame most people who are "sleeping" are not really getting a good rest and only get this amount of REM no matter what they try.

more dreams!

I certainly agree with the top part, tho the bottom part is just individual adaptation so our "techniques" would of course be a little different. I use to smoke pot just to lull myself to sleep, but then found that puts my brain in a haze even the next day... all the pharmaceutical sleep aids are pretty much similar in action/function. The other thing is that if you continuously take something "to go to sleep" it becomes part of routine, routine develops habit, habit creates dependence, and then when you don't have said required "stimulus" you'll feel out of place... so the best true course of action is to find a way that works for you (any you) to naturally bring the sleep rhythm back in place.

For me personally, I would just stay up for a couple of days until sleep was a necessity, and no longer an option, and then adjust it that way. Eventually (over about 4-5 months or so) it all levels out and the natural rhythm shows itself again... a bit of a juggling act for sure tho, to say the least

This seems to be the repeating pattern after my experiences. And I can relate to the juggling act because I tend to walk around feeling hyper-aware of my behavior patterns, and when I start noticing fuzzy/slow memory recall, increased distractibility, subtle impulsive decisions creeping up out of nowhere, it begins to create a vicious cycle in my mind of fearing the irrational. The juggling act has to include protecting yourself, your health, the people in your life, and so on. I completely understand the juggling act, too well.