Both Hinduism and Buddism as well as Confucian groups follow a lot of the same principals and share a lot of the same symbolism and ideas, although sometimes with different purpose or for symbolizing different things. Not surprising considering the centuries of trade and evolution of said philosophies/religions.

And anrchy, I was just responding to the question posed after your analogy, I get what you meant by it. I also totally understand why you choose not to use one, I have a friend who lives in Oklahoma and I've heard aaaaaaall about the meth heads out there.

As far as foil goes, it's no worse than brass pipe fittings imho.. Most brass contains lead, which has been shown.to migrate to the machined surfaces (i.e. inside where people put their spice) and by it's nature contains copper, whose salts are actually very toxic. I will admit that I don't know about the presence of copper salts in plumbing brass but they sure as hell are found on the surface of copper pipe. I will concede that 'there is no wrong way as long as it works AND you are aware of any possible risks' is a better choice of wording.

Also by saying that I can see what I'm doing, I mean that I can see what exactly the material is doing and what stage of the vape I am at, not that you can't see what you are doing. I've honestly never used a GVG so I couldn't say. As for residue, all that is left over is impurities in the form of ash or some liquid material that has slid up the side from the incoming air, which I heat up lightly and vape. So no loss. I always load up a little extra anyways, that way I just puff when I want.

Impurities in the form of ash.

So you've done an analysis of the leftovers? That right there is pyrolized dmt. I don't get this at all with my gvg.

Except that I am not talking about DMT, just the bufo I have been smoking which had very fine plant particulate in it that can't be removed with out better filter paper. Same thing with the amazing hash oil with some chlorophyll contamination. Granted I can't run a gc/ms on it but it's an insignificant mass in the range of around 1-5mg out of every 100mg material. Not bad considering the contamination is around the same value.

The loss is rather insignificant but I doubt that it is mostly product but rather carbon based seeing as is is pure white and fine like wood ash.

Remember, it's always better to clarify than assume

By the way, good discussion from everyone involved so far! I love a good debate and this is definitely turning into one here.

Have you folks who like oil pipes tried either infused herb in a bong or a GVG/VG to compare?

Also what kind of dosage is being loaded into the oil burners?

I want to make it very clear that we here at the DMT nexus HIGHLY discourage intravenous use DMT or any form of injection. The risks far outweigh the benefits.

Ya I love a good debate as well. Glad your able to stay neutral makes it enjoyable and allows for learning for all parties.

I don't know what exactly you are measuring but it sounds like you are guesstimating. 10mg of burnt material will appear as only a couple mgs afterwards.

So do you use an oil burner for dmt?

The biggest difference IME would be with larger doses. It is not possible to get large doses of Dmt using an oil burner without burning significant amounts. Using mine in a bong increased its ability but the gvg makes it easy. Sometimes too easy.

Totally agree on the IV DMT, homemade concoctions contaminated with god knows what are a sure way to an infection or embolism, IF you are lucky. Loss of skin, necrotic lesions, DEATH, all are very likely. It is NOTHING like a pharmaceutical product as far as purity and sterility go.

I'm not doubting that the one way may be more efficent than the other, but as I stated before I believe that based on my experience people are somewhat over exaggerating how much is lost by using an oil pipe. Then again, this isn't exactly a repeatable experiment that will produce the same results for everyone, too many variables involved.

To 3rdI, I can't speak for DMT on my part but I've been dropping in about 20mg shatteresque bufo balls to VERY good effect. Clean pipe with first ball will vape clean as ~3-5 slow drags, no visible ash or residue appears until about 15-20 balls in provided I'm not being lazy or careless. I can answer as to my experience with dosage/form/approximate purity/effects of other drugs and how they compare if interested, but I'll leave that out of here.

I wonder how bufo compares to Dmt in terms of vape temperature and Tolerance to being burnt. I assure you, from experience using both devices, the oil burner does work and I enjoyed it but def has its draw backs. Hopefully you will one day be able to try out a gvg.

I'm glad that you can stay neutral too, emotion is the biggest enemy to logic and logic is what you need in order to have an intellectual discussion/debate.

You are right, I am guesstimating the weight for the most part simply because the amount is simply too miniscule to measure, even with a .01g scale and after dozens of doses. That was with powder scrapings and from carefully breaking pipes to more thoroughly scrape the ash and small amount of glass shards which would have skewed the weight toward being higher than it really was.

I have smoked it a few times, all in a burner. Not sure of dosage or purity but knowing how to properly use one allowed me to get the fullest from it. I plan on using one for it in the future though, it's my preferred method for things that won't work with a quartz nail and torch.

As far as large doses, have you ever tried melting it in the pipe while rotating over the flame to spread it out? It allows for more surface area to contact the hot glass without the uneven heating that chunks can cause. It also allows you to watch the color as it changes and if you watch for boiling in the middle and singeing around the outside you can keep an eye on any burning. The key is a thin liquid layer that you evenly heat to a light vapor, backing off as soon as you feel any bubbles coming on. The vapor color and the movement of the substance are the biggest things to keep an eye on imo.

Bufo definitely has a higher temp since you can toss it in a 450F oven for an hour without any loss, it actually survives better than most of the crap in it! As far as it's tolerance to being burnt compared to DMT, I couldn't say. The great quality of the DMT that I tried years ago melted perfectly for me and wasn't any harder to heat and vape without burning than hash oil is. Went from solid, to melt, to small vapor and with a little patience and the lighter a few inches away, POOF, beautiful vapor instantly, followed by a beautiful but somewhat odd tasting vapor. Not bad at all though and no burnt taste.

I'll agree that it does have it's drawbacks, specifically the steep learning curve if you want to get really good at it. Took me yeeeears of practice with all kinds of different substances to get aIs good as I am with it. Then again I've always liked a challenge and trying to learn the art of drugs.

I don't know about a GVG, but I am somewhat partial to those Hearth Stone pipes! Also, sorry to everyone if I'm cluttering this thread up posting twice in a row more than once. My phone makes typing anymore than the above post at once a real SOB.

See the thing is no matter how spread out you get it you cannot heat it up evenly. As soon as you move to a different part that part is cooling down. So on and so forth.

With the gvg your heating up all the dmt at the same time evenly. So larger doses are achievable with a denser vapor in a shorter amount of time. I also have had plenty of practice with an oil burner and know all the tricks that's why I said I argued to the teeth about its abilities, until I tried the gvg.

If you haven't, try placing your burner into a bong. It works great.

Again, I agree with you that it does have it's drawbacks and is far from perfect, I'm merely arguing my belief that although there is some loss of product and some burning, that it's somewhat exaggerated, based on various posts around here and other forums online.

You are correct about the uneven heating though, having previously been a glassblower I can tell you first hand how fast boro will cool from red hot to solid as rock and the importance of having forearms like Popeye to keep that dripping syrupy mess rotating evenly.

I do want to clarify that I do understand that an oil pipe isn't 100% efficient, but in my experience at least I'd say you can get it damn close. I am curious to try the Hearth Stone pipes like I said before though. Seems like a little less work and a lot more society friendly for people who can't get over the stigma of using an oil pipe.

I can't quite remember, but I recall some members claiming it wasn't that great. The health stone or whatever.

Hm, I actually thought the consensus seemed to be the opposite. Oh well, people will always have differing opinions whatever the method judging by sentiments expressed by some in here and the large number or threads and posts on how to make a screen for the GVG. Actually, I do believe some people expressed concerns about burning the spice in hearth stone pipes since I believe that you heat from above with no diffuser material, but I could be wrong.

Either way I'll never know for myself until I try it and I've wasted much more money on stupider things, that's for sure.

I just wanted to chime in on this topic regarding the method for using an oil pipe. Lots of posts recommend a GVG over a bulb. I feel like most of you that have been unsuccessful with an oil pipe it's simply an operational technique you're missing. It doesn't matter whether you use a candle, torch lighter, bic lighter, or even a kitchen lighter. You have to twist the pipe clockwise and counterclockwise- back and forth as you are inhaling. Otherwise you burn the spice and don't vape the melted crystals as well a you can.

Although there is a hole on top of the bulb, if you twist rapidly enough, the liquid will not fall out... it will be too busy vaporizing into a gas so don't worry. Twist away.

I usually melt down the crystals first. Always have a wetnap handy. Just wet a papertowel or a kitchen towel. After you have thoroughly melted the crystals, I usually place the bulb on the wet nap and allow it to cool for a quick second. You'll hear the glass hisssssss as you rub it against the wetnap. Don't worry the glass won't shatter.

Now you're ready for your first intake. Place the flame a few cm away from the bulb as you twist the pipe gently. You want to swish the liquid side to side. You'll see the vapor appear, inhale steady and smooth and start twisting a little faster... this helps the spice vape more so. As you get more experienced, you can draw the vapor out harder while violently twisting... which is how I do it. After your final hit... whether you're a one hitter quitter or you want to do it in multple draws. Simply place the oil pipe on the wetnap before laying back. Or have your sitter do it for you.

It may sound like it's hard but with very minimal practice... it's really easy and I can get in about 30mg off one hit. Remember to twist. If you twist fast enough you can bring the flame closer to the bulb. Twisting helps the crystals vape faster and prevents burning.

Let's twist again... like we did last summer... YEEAAAA twist again... like we did last year.

PS Get eyeshades. This way even if you have the urge to open your eyes... you can't. Sometimes coming back from my breakthroughs... I can still see the other realm even though I have them on. I'll feel my eyes and realize I still have eyeshades on. Pretty cool.... pretay pretay.... pretty cool.

Don't forget to twist. I'm out.