Hey!

As I recall the plan (before I did the first try) was for absolute silence and darkness. But then I needed something to distract myself from the nausea while 'coming up', so I started listening to music and dancing. I have somehow learned to dance very freely and mindlessly recently, as a result!

And in the 'failed' attempts, I continued listening to music mainly because there wasn't much else going on!

The last two tries when I had a strong effect, I was in darkness (mostly - unless I was purging!) with no music, and that suited me very well.

Thanks brother, I think I'm gonna light some incense, get a black light in the room, and let the crickets chirp. Props on the new dancing skills, maybe take the wife out to the club or some karaoke night and show them off

I guess next time I'll try some syrian rue with... something. Chakruna maybe (the greenest leaves I can find). Mix it up a bit. Or just take more chaliponga, since I know that works (in the spirit of changing one thing at a time).

Cooking caapi takes a long while unless it's THP-ed (and even then reduction takes a long time), and the THP itself gives me the willies because of the use of plastic with hot water. I did that twice and not having a good feeling about doing it some more.

Syrian rue is quite quick as I understand it. Apparently one can even eat the seeds whole? Something to research.

Thanks brother

This might give you the insight you seek by the way;


much appreciated

Tonight I'm trying 10g chaliponga and 3.5g syrian rue. From what I've read, rue might prolong the peak quite a bit.

I did the chaliponga in a french press this time, it seemed to work quite well. After putting through the same amount of liquid that I'd put into the THP (about 4L for 10g - possibly excessive, but hey) it was coming out clear.

I tried the french press way because I failed to construct a viable THP out of stainless steel/ceramic parts, and I really hate the idea of imbibing plastics.

I'll do the rue a bit later, I'm thinking 3x30m boils.

Then take them 20m apart.

Apparently rue is far more nauseating than caapi, so I've got some ginger tea on hand. Not sure whether to drink that before or during (as a prophylactic) or only when I feel very ill.

drink it before. It prepares the stomach for digestion. If want, can make more than needed, and if feeling the need then drink after as well

edit~I guess the best answer would be drink it as you feel is needed (the ginger tea) whatever feels most natural to you

So this time:

- 3.5g syrian rue (powdered in coffee grinder ,3 x 20m boils approx 750ml each, 1 tbsp 5% acidity white vinegar per L, reduced to 1 shot glass)
- 10g chaliponga (french press extraction, 8L water, 1 tbsp 5% acidity white vinegar per L, reduced to 1 shot glass)

T: rue (+few sips of ginger tea)
T+20: chaliponga (+few sips of ginger tea)
T+~1h20m: purge, then the peak came on straight away (OEVs, visions)
T+~2h20m: dropped out of peak (went into 'realization' mode)
T+~3h20m: pretty much baseline

I had pretty much identical effects to the last journey using caapi. I didn't experience any unusual nausea or anything like that from using rue, which I considered might happen due to reports I'd read.

I'd also vaguely suspected/hoped-for a longer peak with rue, but that was not so.

The next day (today) has been unusual, in that after eating what I'd normally eat after a caapi experience, I got a massive headache, which is still with me now, some 10h later. What I ate was: Eggs, carrots, tomatoes, onion, cucumber, lettuce, olive oil. All great quality ingredients (free range eggs, nationally grown produce).

Can anybody comment on things such as...?

a) What this very strong headache might signify
b) How it might have happened
c) How I can avoid it in the future

Also, I'd be interested in and grateful for any opinions about why my peaks are so short.

Maybe the peaks are short because you're using Rue and not caapi, just a guess, but from my caapi experiences I can certainly say that it doesn't disappoint, which I assume you already know. Or maybe I misunderstood something somewhere

Yes, my caapi journeys were the same short.

I see... that was difficult to distinguish since your last caapi experience post went from T= 2:40 to T=23:30 (or something close to it)

In any case my peaks on caapi were between 5-8 hrs roughly, but I also brewed around 200g per session, and drank what I felt was reasonably justified (most of it), just listened to my body... at a certain point I just had a feeling that I drank enough of the base, so I would set the rest aside, wait 30mins for that inhibitory effect to get actualized, then proceed to the admixture.

So maybe try carefully increasing base dosage (by base I mean the rue, or the caapi) to what you feel is sufficient

Just 4 the lulz

I don't know how deep a 3 hour peak really takes you, but I do know how deep a 5-8 hour peak takes you, and so within that understanding, if you haven't already, at least consider the information ITT:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=50863

Be conscious of all you do, every little nuance, and you should be fine. Listen to your body and your own best judgement

after maybe 150-200 experiences with ayahuasca and analogue brews, plus microdosing, I can say with a good level of certainty that there is no set depth that a person is going to reach. While over time there might be a level of consistency seen, and let's say a person might be able to acknowledge this after 20 experiences, the effects can still vary drastically. The same dose one day can hit you half as hard the next day, or end up much more powerful. The same dose on one day might peak relatively strong, yet leave you back at baseline within 2-3 hours..while the next time last a solid 6 hours of spread out, milder effects.

I have done 7 days of ayahuasca with intense diets before and trust me, this stuff is very responsive to your body state. There is no tolerance and you can just go up and up more and more on lower and lower doses as you go. This is crutial to learning how to work with this medicine IMO..once you can learn to match it's power with some of your own then you can really go deep into it's mystery with lower doses.

Generarally, the more vine or rue you use the longer it is going to last though.

This is just my opinion based on a number of years working extremely frequently with the teas. Could be different for others.

Rue is not more nauseating than caapi for me. I also do not suggest you eat rue..brew it. It's a wonderful plant right on par with ayahuasca.

Oh yes, that was a typo! Fixed it, thanks. It was 2:40 to 3:35, or something. The peaks I have seem to range from 1 to 2 hours. I think 2hrs is on the generous side as well.



Maybe so... On the other hand, one of my earlier attempts was 100g caapi with chakruna and then I did 100g caapi with chaliponga, and I only felt the caapi (was very sedated). Ho hum. I'm guessing I'll get into a groove at some point!



Thanks! I got cheek-ache from watching it.

Could you tell me which bit of that thread you're pointing me at, and why? I'm not really clear on it.

Are you saying a 5-8hr peak leads to panic and craziness? Or...

Well, it is possible for me to eat super clean, I could try that. My diet is already pretty darned clean though, albeit with some minor 'lapses' from time to time. A minor lapse would be a slice of cake or one slice of pizza, but that is rare (say once a fortnight). I don't drink alcohol, I don't smoke, I don't do any other drugs. I gave up pork when starting Aya.

Can you recommend some specific diet that would be more amenable to Aya?



Some of my own power being physical/mental prep? Like diet, right? What else fits into this category? I'm interested in learning from you what you think I can do to match Aya's efforts.



Well, I guess I'll up the dose then. Since it was first try with rue, 3.5g seemed 'about right' to me. Is there some level of rue that is unsafe to use, or can I just double it to 7g with no worries, do you think?



Understood. No-one can speak for everybody.



Yes, I brew it. I heard eating it was a bad idea and I do not intend to do it. I find it nice that you say it's a wonderful plant. During my 'due diligence' on it before taking my impression was that most people thought it inferior to caapi.

I did notice a bit of a difference, and that was that the caapi had more of a sedative/hypnotic effect. The rue felt 'sharper'. If that makes sense. I felt that if I drank maybe 200g of caapi I would just be incapable of movement.

Edits: Typos and clarifications.

That headache lasted for about 24h in the end (not sure exactly), and I think I have a candidate of what that was (in the absence of any other suspects).

I ate a slice of wholemeal flatbread the day after, and when my wife ate some today she spat it out and said it was totally spoiled. I thought it tasted weird! So basically I ate spoiled food (had mold on it) within about 8h of coming off rue.

Sounds like the culprit to me, what do you think?

I just read the whole thread. I would post something in that thread myself (as I would to other interesting topics), but I don't have full member status. And this thread is the wrong place for it.

Feel free to cast a vote for me if you feel able to!

It doesn't "lead to it"... I'm just not sure at a 3 hour peak if that's something you've encountered in your mental state. So, in a way those are common "fears" of most newcomers. They're unsubstantial, of course, more ego-fears than realistically applicable, I just wasn't sure if that's something you have already encountered and dealt with before in your previous life experiences or not. Also for what it's worth you've got my vote, I personally would love to benefit from your own experience and insight, but I can only do so much.

length of peak does not mean you will or will not panic. You could brew a gram of rue and load it with tryptamines and have an experience that is less than 2 hours and totally loose it.

In reguards to diet..I don't follow any thing about not eating pork etc. I don't do "maoi diets" and personally I am one of the people who is very skeptical of such claims. I eat clean always. I only drink wild spring water, eat freerange organic animal products, organic produce etc..I make nearly everything I eat myself from scratch and I use a lot of wild herbs from my area. I dunno if that means anything for you.

When I say I did 7 days while dieting..I mean 7 days of ayahuasca eating nothing and living on fresh fruit and vegetable juices, herbal teas and spring water. It is not for the faint of heart, to say the least..and sometimes fasting like that can actually make the tea weaker...and you. You need the energy to deal with the higher level experiences IME. Going into these experiences while tired, hungry and weak is not ideal for me.

Rue does feel more sharp or clear to me usually..which is not what some others say. 7 grams of rue is a lot..the stuff can have a stronger kick to it than caapi at times..going from 3.5g to 7 is not suggested. 7 grams should be safe, physically..but its a lot of rue. Up the dose by 1 gram at a time. Adding a bit of rue to your caapi is good also, but make sure you know the doses of each when you combine them or you can really get your ass kicked.

(may or may not be related)

I've had quite a few scary experiences many moons ago. The one that is most prominently etched on my psyche is where I took ketamine and I'm still to this day pretty sure I actually physically died and came back to life that night.

There is no 'accepting' or 'rejecting' in a state like I was in. Just a frozen type of 'empty horror', being witnessed by nobody. Of course it is 'accepted' in one way - just being conscious of something is the purest form of acceptance anyway, IMO. In consciousness there is no such thing/concept as rejection - only the appearance of rejection happening (which is itself accepted of course, because consciousness is a pure 'acceptor'.