Hi all,

(this is for males, but it applies to woman too, but I don't know anything about it, I am not a trainer nor health specialist)

This thread is inspired by a thread I posted regarding the use of anabolic steroids and Ayahuasca, here.

Since it doesn't belong to the Ayahuasca section, I decided to start this thread and introduce the topic of Testosterone Replacement Therapy TRT, but it is also used Hormonal RT, as HRT, which includes more hormones.

So here is the body:

When a man is 22 has the most Test in his body, which translates in a lots of sex, and in great muscular growth if working out.

Every year on the count drops, and by 34 is much less, and by 44 it is much lower and so on.

Test is needed for many things in the body, and this drop of hormone is part of ageing process. It is healthy to help the body and add more hormone: the result is more and better sex, and healthier phisical performance, and more muscle growth, or just healthier for heart, mind and just overall.

ALCOHOL:
since we are alcohol society, we dring, and alcohol kill Testosterone and converts it to estrogen, of female hormone. That's why bear drinkers have tits and extra fat, which only worstens the Test situation in ageing man.

THE CONTORAVERSY:

1. Testosterone is illegal as heroin is, so doctors prefer giving viagra instead of sex hormones.

2. The levels of Test are different for every person, BUT, free test is from 300 to 800.

It is more then sure that in your youth you may even have 1200, but that lab work was never performed to know what was you count when young. At the age of 34, 44, you may have lab work and show you have 301, and you doc will say: Great, you are fine....YOU ARE TOTALLY NOT. You want to have your Test anywhere from 600 to 800 or more to be a full functioning man. So your doc won't prescribe you anything, if you have 299 you will get shots...

3. Since the way to know what your Test levels when peaking is impossible, the only way to know how much is needed is empirical, or you see how you perform. You will never be 18 years old in bed, but it will get much better, and you will feel much stronger, have better sleep.

This is the TOP SECRET, since Test became illegal. The other topic is what is cycling, and can one ever have the body of movie stars, that looks "natural", or gym body that looks like they are "working hard" in the gym. I will post a quick intro to cycling if anybody is interested.

Jox

I see what you are saying brother, but the information is incomplete. Your understanding of it is very basic.


Endogenous (natural, body-produced) testosterone has it's own natural life cycle, and is basically nature's steroid that makes a man, a man. It allows for physical development of masculine features.

If you start supplementing exogenous testosterone (external, in the form of gels, or injections, or sub lingual, or in some cases I've even seen suppository being considered o_O)
then your body will automatically stop it's own natural production of testosterone, because you're supplementing it. So, in a way you're messing with the natural order of things. The system responsible for natural production of sex hormones is the HPTA (Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis) which involves everything from your brain to your testes, simply put. When you take external anabolic hormones, they shut down natural production of the HPTA, your testicles start to slowly shrink because they're not producing naturally, and your capacity for natural production down the road is put at risk.

Generally speaking, temporary medical use of anabolics is unlikely to create any lasting long-term problems, but chronic and excessive use over longer periods of time certainly can. Everything from undue heart stress (over years and years of anabolic use and physical exhertion) to cholesterol levels raising which can lead to atherosclerosis in the long run; arterial plaque build up from extensive and high levels of cholesterol.


I'm not even sure if you know what Post Cycle Therapy is, or if you're part of the traditional group that just uses anabolics and then, after stopping use, just lets the body recover naturally. If you were to get bloodwork after your 10-week cycles, you will see your natural testosterone levels will plummet, because you are no longer supplementing it, and the body is no longer producing it. It could take months for your body to re-establish it's homeostatic balance of hormones after use, and in the meantime you will feel tired, unmotivated, and lethargic because of the lack of these vital hormones in this gap after stopping injections.

Post-Cycle-Therapy is then designed to optimize your body's natural recovery, with the use of other HPTA-stimulating, testosterone-boosting supplements to get your natural production under way after stopping injections, this way the transition is a lot smoother. Of course, there is a certain level of risk involved when using, since natural recovery is not actually guaranteed, a small percentage of guys for various reasons never recover their natural hormonal production after using anabolics.


So, without going into the more intricate details (I've just barely even scratched the surface of a very complex biological function) I would advise against people using these supplements without the supervision of an experienced professional or a competent medical practitioner, because the variables are too wide of things that could go wrong. And if someone is not aware of the possible risks, it could do more harm than good in the long run.

There is a right way to use these substances, and they were originally developed for medical uses (at least most of them) but they are also dangerous to health if misused or abused, and hence are illegal.

In my experience, if someone truly needs the aid of anabolics for personal health reasons, and not just for recreational use, then they generally find their own avenue of approach by speaking to their doctor for HRT/TRT prescriptions, or by educating themselves and finding their own intelligent access.

pine pollen and nettle root. You can harvest both for free in most places. Combine that with healthy animal fats and cholesterol. I don't get why people supplement with pure pharma compounds, when nature already makes plants that have the same things in ratio with tons of other medicinal compounds. I think this is how it is supposed to be, it is how we are designed and the natural plants/ratios are the best fit.

like jamie said, basically that. There's a proper place and proper use for all things, but I would exhaust all possible natural avenues before considering pharmaceutical medicine, tho it too has it's proper applications.

Also, testosterone is not the cure all. I don't look very masculine and have almost no muscle and a low sex drive...so i got myself tested. The result: 3-5x as much testosterone as is normal for someone my age. I should be a sex crazed hulk.

So if lowering levels of testosterone by age is a physiological process, then why bother correcting it? There may be a reason, evolutionarily speaking, why aged humans are not as fit as younger humans. You cannot be healthy or disease-free forever so what is the argument here for supplementing testosterone?


This needs explicit citation (i.e. please provide us with references) otherwise it will be deeply disputed




You imply here a conspiracy of making testosterone illegal so that people will be less healthy less stronger and perform worse in bed??!?!?!



This is also partly true; Testosterone supplementation will block the HPT axis, but only for that long. In men, regulation of the axis is fairly robust and after some time of exogenous testosterone administration the negative feedback on the gonadotrophins GNRH, LH and FSH production stops and you produce gonadotrophins anew.

This is why testosterone used as a male contraceptive only has a temporary effect in sperm production. Progesterone (supplemented with a bit of testosterone to maintain libido and "whatever makes a man a man" ) is a more robust downregulator of the HPT axis.



I wholeheartedly agree - and I do not see the need to supplement yourself with testosterone if you overall feel a healthy, happy man. It is akin (but obviously more dangerous considering the complexity of steroid hormone signalling) to taking vitamin supplements just for the sake of it when there is no need to do so.

Just for the sake of expansion, and natural contribution;


The Truth About Alcohol, fat loss, muscle gain and health

^^That whole site is full of wonderful diet tricks and goodies for anyone looking to naturally, safely and effectively shed a few pounds. Most popular tab would most likely yield the quickest maneuverability around the site, but all of it is chock full of good info.

Was relevant, can be extremely useful

Other links of interest, for those that are inclined:

Understanding "Muscle growth and retention" within natural, and hormonally enhanced limits.

That's about all I got, if planning on using hormonal enhancements DO SO RESPONSIBLY, AND ONLY AS FAR AS NEEDED, IF NEEDED. Please.

There are plenty of natural and herbal remedies that are quite effective and less poisoning to the body as well, so I would personally explore those options first. For example, in reference to male/female sexuality, look into this:

OM-CHI Herbs - EPISANDRA Enhanced Stamina and Sexual Drive
Episandra compound is a proprietary blend of Chinese herbal extracts shown to have strong aphrodisiac properties and to improve general health. The herbs in this compound have all been used for centuries for these purposes in China, with excellent results.

This product can be used by both men and women with no undesirable side effects and is safe for all people.

Active Ingredients:
Epimedium sagittatum: "Epimedii is a very powerful yang (male) tonic herb. It’s power ranks almost with the animal yang tonics…It’s name can be translated as "the herb for the man who likes sex too much, like a goat" or "passionate goat weed"…This is what Epimedii is famous for. Women, too, take this herb to increase their sexual drive…

Schisandra is said to increase circulation in and sensitivity of the female genitals. Many women claim increased genital warmth and sensation after using Schisandra for a period of time "…for both men and women, Schisandra is considered to have aphrodisiac qualtities…it tends to contain sexual fluids until the appropriate time for their release. Thus, consuming Schisandra for a period of time, one tends to build up sexual fluids."

Use whatever you see fit;

Everything I could think of about Physical Fitness and hormonal enhancements

(that whole thread)

I didn't read through the whole thread, but thought I'd mention taking a look at longjack / Eurycoma longifolia if you've got low testosterone issues.