I don't know, i feel this kind of talk is a bit pointless. We are what we are and not what we are not and only if we accept what we are and don't pretend what we are not, can we really be. Anything in between is just fear and "adjusting". Nothing wrong with that, i think most people are still adjusting, myself included. That's just how life works. But it makes sense to me to accept this temporary nature of things. Nothing is normal. Only if you believe that something CAN be normal, you can suffer the illusion of being detached from it.

But experiencing this is quite normal. I like this old saying: "get freaky". Sex is everwhere. God is Sex you are sex life is sex.

Im with obliguhl.

You guys "delusions of grandeur" much?

Exactly what kind of powers or knowledge have you gained from your visions?

Which one of you can show any?

Sounds like its just made you snobby for no visible reasons...

That knowledge is questions, not answers. And that grandeur is petty, and that those who ask to be shown likely won't see.

JBArk

PS - but I do agree.

In line with recent posts –

I’d say the only “special knowledge” I’ve received is that I don’t know anything.
Not a very difficult burden to bear.

Im with Gibran2 on this; IMO what is regarded as 'special knowledge' imparted by the DMT experience is no other than a profound sense of humbleness. Or, as some may feel,if its a burden then why visit those realms repeatedly? To burden oneself again and again is, quite possibly, masochistic or an attempt at some kind of surfeit martyrdom.

If DMT bestows a burden on you then perhaps you should re-evaluate your approach; or just be profoundly grateful that lifes' more prosaic burdens are not occupying your mind and straining your back.

I too agree. More precisely, the border of the knowable (?) universe has been absurdly expanded while my knowledge made just a few steps.

But ignorance is not bliss, so even if some things seen may feel heavy sometimes to carry around, it's plain obvious I was burdened way more heavily before. As corpus callosum said, if you have to bear things, at least make sure they might be really important.

...that all been said, i wish the op good luck in coming to terms with the experience and its implications!

Knowing that the borders of your Universe have dramatically expanded is not the same as not knowing anything. Even to gaze on the face of mystery and be utterly confounded was enough to get people labeled as saints and prophets in times past.

Being humble is all well and fine... and it is a worthy pose to adopt in light of how vast the multiverse seems to be and how hyper-intelligent some of Hyperspace's denizens appear. But, even a relatively tame trip report of a breakthrough compares favorably with the visions of most Biblical Prophets... and people pour endlessly over those musty old books with fanatic zeal still, thousands of years after the fact.

Res Ipsa Loquitur.

It is a common and thoroughly understandable idea that in the face of so much unknown and unknowable stuff... we not jump to hasty conclusions and refrain from feeling superior to people who haven't had the experience. However, even though all things in the Universe are filled with a certain basic equality... simply by virtue of being the Universe... the Universe is also filled with dramatic inequality as well. There are stars that are 1,000,000 times as massive as our dear Sol. To say that all stars are equal is foolish.

Likewise, there are people who have the minds of 4 year olds. It would be disingenuous of us to say that their intellect was equal to a Newton or a Tesla. Some people add much more to the human collective than others. It is an unpopular and non-PC thing to admit to... but there are geniuses who bring more to the table than 1,000 other people. (and that is being rather nice)

Now, if your experience of DMT has been limited to trippy visuals and some interesting psychological effects... then it is quite natural to feel that you are not fundamentally changed by these experiences. I will only say that this is not the case for quite a few of us around here. I won't derail the thread further by discussing exactly what kind of "knowledge and power" we have been blessed to bring back with us... there is no point. Because, if you have to ask...

BTW, the key word in the phrase "delusions of grandeur" is delusions. If you can prove that your revelations are not delusional... again and again... to yourself anyway... it would be delusional to continue to deny or ignore the implications of this. If you conducted experiments that over and over again showed you results that were astounding and unbelievable, at some point you would have to be a very thick individual to continue tossing out the results and pretending you haven't learned anything.

I am sure a bunch of you will find this to be the height of arrogance... oh well. We have had the elitism debate here a few times over and I doubt anyone will change their mind based on a few more posts, but have at it. Let the flaming begin.

HF

I think if we don"t refrain from feeling superior to others that haven"t had the experience, the only person we do a disservice to is ourselves. You run the risk of losing your head up your arse. And you really do not get a decent view of what"s really going on with your head stuck up your own arse.

There is nothing wrong with being changed by the experience. It just depends on how the experience has changed you. To compare yourself to a saint or a profit after having a DMT trip (no matter how deep and spiritual) is delusional. Or at the very least big headed.

But, at the end of the day, if you are having delusions of grandeur that you have proven to yourself to not be delusions, and you are happy. Then who am i to judge?

Double Pshh.... sports and alcohol are some of the greatest buzz-kills this world has ever known from my point of view....

nail on the head

I have to agree with Hyperspace Fool.

We are all on different paths, and at different points on those paths. It seems not every man is created equal. To deny that isn't helpful. Let's face it, we're not in the majority here. The majority of people think what we experience with these substances is complete fantasy and delusion. And of course, not all of us gain as much from these experiences as others. Some have a completely different intent when going into an experience. Again, not everyone is on the same path.

I don't really think it's elitism per say. If you're constantly looking down on people and judging them according to your beliefs well then, yes. But in doing something like DMT you're pretty much forced into a sense of humility about things. If you don't adopt such a stance, you'll most likely be tossed around pretty roughly during the experience.

In terms of the vastness of the universe and our understanding of it, we're all imbeciles. Just some recognize this fact, while others go about their lives thinking they have the answers. There is a separation between the two, it's undeniable.

better question is why do some people spend so much time worrying about how different people can be, or how similar they are..or why they feel that everyone should for some reason be on the same level? Is there ANY aspect of the natural world you can observe that would validate that idea?

Like I have said elsewhere..nature is dynamic. It does not seek out homogenous states of being, but it does exist within a state of coherence..and pretty much always that coherence is found within systems of immense biodiversity. Why would humans be any different? It is peoples ego's often that both allow them to feel superior, and at the same time allow others to want to resist the idea of another being superior. At the end of the day, who cares about worrying about something so futile?

Look around. There are tons of people walking around with they're heads up they're asses everywhere you go, either completely ignorant or just not intelligent enough to comprehend anything beyond what they see on television. I would like to think it is just programmed ignorance(and issues concerning the development of the nervous system during key periods), because I would hope that more people will clue in sooner or later so that we can build a better society. We cant do that without a large portion of everyone else.

Anyone who denies this when they spend some time in any populated area must be blind. It is what it is, accept it. To be able to accept this without looking down on anyone else is a liberating thing. Accept that we are diverse. Everyone deserves some respect, and equal opportunity..yet at some point everyone makes certain choices that they must live up to. What drives them to make the choices they make is likely a much more complex issue..nonetheless we are not all "one", therefore we are all different. You cant have unity without having diversity. Unity does not = the same thing. It just means we are all connected at some level..and we are.

Many people have problems with those who point blame or pass judgement as well..which is utterly ridiculous. As if no one person or percentage of people is more to blame for certain things than others. This idea is a true delusion. If no one is ever judged for they're actions than they will never grow. Judgement is not the same as condemnation. Judgement does not have to be negative. Sometimes we have to be hard on people to get them to think. The world is not Disneyland, if it was it would be a very different place.

We are talking about specific mental muscles here..muscles that likely atrophy in the absence of working out. Would you expect a long distance runner to feel they do not have superior toning in the calf muscle to the average person?

Paul Stamets has make the claim that he thinks psilocybin makes people smarter. I think that psychedelics definatly do work out our mental muscles in a way that is unlike anything the average person experiences. It is only logical and science pretty much backs that up. Of course many people take psychedelics a couple times in they're life, many people simply forget most of it and block it out or combine mushrooms with drunken stupors(a lot of otherwise normal people do that I find).

Do you not feel like you have developed a superior mentality to people who think gay rights should be banned, or black people deserve less rights, or that non Christian are sinners and pot smokers are all crack fiends and criminals? there are people walking around out there who make up a large percentage of the population who believe in all kinds of wildly stupid and very dangerous/oppressive shit..

This is why prisons flourish and we still have to have votes about whether or not gay marriage should be allowed, or if we should ban more plants or slash and burn more rainforest..

I think that is too far a jump from thinking that you have a superior mentality to someone who has not used psychedelic drugs. You have to have the mental raw materials to work with in the first place. Mark my my words you will be falling down a slippery slope if you start thinking too much this way.

Passing judgement without really thinking about who you are passing judgement on is lame.

As far as all people being created equal, i maybe wrong, but that is what i believe. My little sister is not too bright but she is way more perceptive than me. It all weighs out in the end. The inequalities come about as we are marked by our experiences in life.

Nice insight and augmentation to Newton's view, jbark. And your choice to us the word "wisdom" is quite marvelous and wise, in-and-of-itself. Wisdom or Sophia, is therefore, that frame of mind which accepts the limitation of any single or finite perspective, as almost an exercise in futility. One cannot view the infinite in relative terms, grasp the insubstantial no-thingness of the Void... within a wholly substantial point of reference, nor comprehend the nature of the eternal, with a working-set of any conceptually encoded paradigms, itself born of an existence within the time-space-continuum. As the universe is so immense, mysterious and in it's reality, immeasurably further beyond mortal grasp... it crystallizes into the epiphany of such "special knowledge", indeed.

And when we open ourselves wholly to this Gnosis, we see... we awaken for the dreamscape and bloom exponentially. We then effectively, dis-embrace from the folly of any concrete system of certainty of thought, release any and all fixed notions of the ordinary or normal, as being real in any way. Nor is it lasting, this dreamscape, for it is naught but impermanence at play.


As wise Socrates states so clearly point-blank, is inarguably a paradoxical or "special knowledge". Is it not? Which in this context, sets itself apart from the daydreaming self, maintaining a certainly of knowing this or that. This knowledge devours the witness to it's flowering. It opens the attic door up to the endless cosmic possibilities and limitless potentiality of what this whole experience as living beings is really all about, beneath the surface and organic behavioral pattering... thus freed of any misunderstandings about the innate reality of any individual perception. Anyhooo... it's all a holographic dream sequence.

We can't makes others see this way... but we can love them impartially and unreservedly, even as we love ourselves. In theory this is quite a lovely ideal, in practice... this is the epic journey of a lifetime! We can only truly cultivate the art of attention and clear intent. We can but develop a will to polish the lens of our conscious-awareness, and lucidly so. And if we experience compassion, we freely share this spiritual vibe with everything in our direct experience, enigmatically playing a game of hide & seek (in any form it appears to us). For with or without any labels of cohesive distinction... Brahman abides in resplendent glory, Indivisibly, obvious of the sentient dreams of mankind.

This line of no thought leads to this present moment, the only moment, in all of it's myriad guises and relative occurrences. Here and now, this is it. I write this an an affirmation and a reference to two of my favorite books (Be here Now and This Is IT). Respectively, written by Baba Ram Dass/Dr. Richard Alpert and Alan Watts. As different from one another as night and day... but so complementary to my vision, they unite many dynamically unique views on reality and self, and in my mind, erases the more disharmonious and superfluous ones. I am forevermore grateful to both authors.

Stripped of all philosophy or theological hypothesis... it is what it is. So, we fearlessly take the leap, head over heels, into the sheer transparency of Clear Light of the Void... and this changes everything for us! This bold undoing spontaneously facilitates the direct vision of no-thingness. The witness of the attention placed into the mirror of the macrocosmic, sacrifices all of the old paradigms we hold to, and release the comfortable solidity of our certainties. We are effective undone. What the Zen folks refer to as the cultivation of "No Mind". Again, is this not special? I would only modify this assessment by highlighting that within the realization, there is IME, a simultaneous insight, that EVERYTHING then, becomes equally special. Hence, the venerable Zen koan is wisdom itself, in action and/or self-expression.


And I'd like to defend the OP's terminology, phrasing his/her experiential beliefs in written words. It's valid to state that this awakening of mindfulness, is itself a blooming vision of That which confers a "special knowledge" of sorts. I also maintain that it is clearly special, because it is not common or typical in it's depth and content. It's subject is that ceaselessly changing force, the Tao, forevermore moving through all of this phenomenon and it will always elude our containment.

This is perhaps a burden if one holds onto the tight compression of the hypnotic dream-state, of the mechanism of our often troubled species. Gotta let it all go... free the Spirit Bird form it's gilded cage. Emptiness and attentiveness to this Now-ness, is the cream, the Amrita, so to speak. So in essence, we cannot know it in the proper sense of knowledge, per se... yet we know that set before this no-thingness, all else becomes unreal in such a tremendous awakening.

It is a knowledge which makes all other knowledge seem unreal. And furthermore, one of my favorite new translations of Plato's quote by Socrates, is derived from the latest cutting-edge interpretations in specificity, of Plato's original wording in ancient Greek.


Now this puts a whole new spin on the meaning of I only know that I do not know anything. Plain and simple, it eludes to the wisdom that when the appearances of this and that, the very ideological structures we hold to be feasibly affirmative and essentially concrete, are in reality merely illusory... we SEE another whole frequency of reality within the seeming mind-set that the overall majority of our earth species perceives.

With all due respect and courtesy offered to the OP, I feel it is not an elitist or delusional proclamation, as has been unkindly suggested by others within this thread. It takes honesty and bravery to admit that transcendental Gnosis is on some levels, a burden to live with. If by burden, the OP means it's a challenge to assimilate, I agree. And I say "Kudos" for being truthful and expressing the notion of it being difficult to grok... and then once grokked, far less easy to pretend that it makes no difference whatsoever, in ones mortal life span. It endlessly shatters every preconception we try to cling to.

It obliterates every previously held ideological understanding we have assembled. And it's so humbling, it is bat-shit crazy stuff to ignore! Well, at least it may come across as such in the initial phases of working-through our grounding of the epiphany and so, incrementally finding the process of integration unfolding steadily and effortlessly. Perhaps it is to the OP, quite a burdensome thing? I once felt similarly but everything ceaselessly changes and interconnects to everything else and nothingness dancing in counterpoint. I suspect that each degree of Gnosis, magikally rebirths our core identity and very structure of self. Awareness itself blooms without limitations of personal preference or rationally quantifiable definition. And it behooves us to sacrifice the entirely of our cherished beliefs, at every turn of the Path.

In other words, to have this experience and pretend that one has not had this realization... is absurd. The challenge is to realize that no mater how profound our small knowledge is, it is so much cosmic dust scattered in the Field of Sacred Being. If this is a burden, then it becomes incrementally less and less so, lighter and still lighter a shift in attention to bear. It gets easier and easier with soulful integration and the cultivation of a more harmonious and equanimous, inner balancing act. Why choose to be burdened?

I have found that from my windowsill, the ordinary is looking quite extraordinary, the deeper I peek into it's folds. Enjoy the ride, good people! As our brother Hyperspace Fool is fond giving a respectful nod to Jerry Garcia, I think this is not inappropriate to celebrate these spiritually poetic lyrics, whether one digs the music of The Grateful Dead or not. Peace is good stuff to share.

"Turn on your love light and let it shine on me. Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine".

^which is why I specifically used the term "developed"..

I never mentioned anything about inequality. I said we are not all "one"..there is a difference. We can be united without being the same. I said nature is dynamic and exists in a state of deep coherence though extreme diversity..why would people differ from that? I was clear that people deserve equal opportunity and that we all make choices that define us, and that there are multiple factors that influence the choices we make. Being "equal" is not the same as being homogenized. Nature does not work that way. People have become far too soft in some respects I think in face of blatent stupidity, in fear of sounding arrogant or judgemental.

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment... or continue playing it as it were.

Whether we are "created" equal or not is open to debate, but even if we accept that as a foundational axiom... things get rather unequal as the days, years and decades pass by.

No two people can share the same set of experiences. We all make rather different choices. If people really believed that everyone is equal regardless of life experience and choices, then they would not bother going to a Phd for medical advice, representing yourself in court would be equal to having a high priced attorney, and sitting around playing XBox would be the same as busting your ass at Oxford.

People say these things as kind of a knee-jerk reaction. But I know no-one who really believes this as dictated by their actions. Plenty of people will say they believe in no judgement and not feeling superior... but it is a lie for the most part.

I actually believe in the old biblical concept of "judge not." Not because there are no judgments to be made, but because there ARE... and it is better when we don't. Prejudice (aka pre-judgment) is especially thorny.

We need finer gradations of language to discuss this in any sane manner. On one level, living is impossible without making a billion judgments a minute. You walk on the sidewalk because you judge it to be safer and more acceptable than to walk in the middle of the street. You pursue a mate because you judge them to be a worthy companion or at least rather attractive.

In my life, I choose to apply the "judge not" motif to judgments about the worth of other people. To judge the whole person. On this level, it is possible that we are all ultimately equal.

However... in individual things, judgment is called for. If we are talking about how fast people can run, there is nothing wrong with admitting that Usain Bolt is probably 2x as fast as you are in the 100m dash. And he is certainly well over 2x as fast as someone who has a bad limp. There is no shame in acknowledging that Michael Jordan could wipe the floor with you in one on one even at the age of 50. And, more importantly, there is nothing wrong with HIM saying this either. (apropos to recent comments by Jordan)

People who devote themselves to certain activities and achieve some degree of mastery deserve to have this acknowledged and respected. In any kung fu school, it is clear who is the Sifu. You would not have the same level of respect for the teaching if any Joe off the street were to lead the class.

This stuff is so obvious, it is amazing that time and time again we have to go through it. It just shows how pervasive these PC ideals are in us.

"Don't look down on other people."

Why not?

Really? Why the hell not?

I don't think we should be mean about it, but to deny that some people are below us in certain areas is lying to ourselves in the worst way.

For example... I have been driving since the 1970's. I drive well, and have the license from the state to prove it. If a 7 year old girl asks to drive my car... I judge her unworthy of the honor. She has no experience, she has no license... and no matter how precocious she may be... I am fairly certain that I can drive circles around her. I look down on her ability to drive. And with good cause. If I were to let her drive my car on the freeway, people would be right in looking down on my sanity and ability to make good decisions.

Elitism, in its benign form, is simply the acknowledgement that we are not all equal in all things. It may all balance out in sum... or at the end of time... but in individual accomplishments, activities and knowledge this makes no difference. You want a real trained surgeon doing your operation. If you pay money to see a great musician perform, you will be disappointed if it turns out to be an open mic night.

Simple as.

Deny it all you will, but those of us who have really delved deeply into entheogens DO have knowledge and experiences that set us apart from the norm. To act like we don't is the worst kind of hubris disguised as humility.

That's my 2c.

HF

Snap! How'd I miss this gem.


We, as attempting to be enlightened beings, often kid ourselves and others. We say silly non truths like, "any things possible", "we are all unique snowflakes", " only God can judge me".
What do all those things have in common? A- they are all shiet.

Acknowledging You or I am smarter or brighter than another is not only practical its damn necessary for a species to progress.
OF COARSE we are more clued in to many things than those that eat sleep work and watch reality TV then die.

Are we better? Are we more important? Well maybe yes at times. If you had to choose 1000 people to survive a global cataclysm to continue the human race and try to advance in the face of unbefore known hardships, are you going to don a blindfold and throw darts at random people? Of course you are not. So, are you a douche for knowing that some people are more important than others in many practical non esoteric ways?

Would anyone here really say that a masogonistic, pedohile, junkie that rapes children and causes massive human suffering is equal to Albert Einstein. Would it be rational or "good" to say only some omnipotent being can judge others?

I'll go an even more controversial step forward. We shouldn't feel everyone needs to be heard nor have a say. Not everyone has a right to an opinion. Even their own.
If we as a species wanted to further understand string theory, should the Taliban have a say? Does anyone care what they think about advanced theoretical physics?

Of coarse not! And this ridiculous modern obsession with everybody's beliefs and opinions should be respected is bolloks! And the idea that we are all equal and nobody has a right to judge is just silly. Of coarse we do.

Judgements can be wrong, this is true but because of this should we not condemn genocide, or slavery. Should we keep our humble little paws in our pockets rather than to point to another and say, that is more than likely not a good thing to do or think?

One of my favourite modern thinkers made a great analogy. Generally speaking, 99% of the time losing your queen in a game of chess is a bad thing. But also in rare instances its the best thing you can do. So for that 1% should we never utter that generally speaking its good to keep your queen?
Because of that 1% should we seriously not condemn things like rape, or murder, or oppression?


The trick here and BTW hard for many, is to not be a dick. Humility is lacking in our modern world so to off set this deficiency many have gone to rediculouse extremes with claims like we are all equal, and we have no right to question or judge the actions of particular groups. This is absurd.


Yes, many consciousness explorers are much more knowledgeable than many other people and I would say hold greater value to human kind as a whole to reduce suffering and prosper.


I'm surprised nobodys dropped this famous quote yet. Quite fitting and no it wasn't Mandela
BTW, he just borrowed it in his speech.
By Marianne Williamson


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness
That most frightens us.

We ask ourselves
Who am I to be brilliant,
Actually, who are you not to be?

Your playing small
Does not serve the world.
There's nothing enlightened about shrinking
So that other people won't feel insecure around you.

We are all meant to shine,
As children do.

And as we let our own light shine,
We unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
As we're liberated from our own fear,
Our presence automatically liberates others -

Ok fair point and good post, but i suppose the thing about your previous post that got on my tits was your mention of a large percentage of the population believing in all kinds of oppressive/dangerous shit. I don"t know where you come from but i have found this not to be the case in the countries that i have lived in and i don"t believe i have ever met anyone who compares pot smokers to crackheads. And it came across "as most other people are idiots apart from people like me". If that is not the case then i apologise. But if it is the case then i will stick to my slippery slope analogy and pray that it is not the "special knowledge" that you have attained that has made you that way.



Because it isn"t necessary. It just makes people feel better about themselves for completely vacuous reasons. This has nothing to do with political correctness. The people you look down on may look down on you in turn for certain reasons. But i will admit that i look down on those that look down on people. Now you can look down on me for being a hypocrite.



Yes but does that knowledge really make you a better person than others?



The thing is that in this world of ours there are Taliban and there are people who work, eat, sleep and watch telly. I am not going to get into the subject of the Taliban (although i guarantee they feel pretty damn dogmatically superior to others), but with people who live normal everyday lives i really, with hand on heart, cannot say that my experiences of life are any more or less relevant or meaningfull than theirs. We are all living here on this planet and all this "i am more superior than you" bullshit is non progressive (in my opinion).

I am also prepared to admit that you all maybe right and that i am an evolutionary dead end.

Exactly. Humility is all well and good, but not when faced with facts. These are some of the most powerful substances on the face of the earth. They change you. They open you up to different ways of thinking and perspective that are not common. To say that someone who is obviously close-minded about a lot of subjects has the same sort of knowledge about these altered states as someone who uses psychedelics regularly is absurd.

They have the ability to open you up, allow you to begin to ask the big questions, see the world in a very different manner than "the norm". That doesn't mean psychedelics = enlightenment. Just that they're a good tool to use if you want to become more than the average joe.

I spent a lot of my life tip-toeing around other people's feelings. I try to be cognizant of how my words and actions affect other people. To be a nice person, have compassion, and do what you can to help others is how I was raised. Sometimes that can be taken to an extreme, and I think I've become more of a realist as I aged.

The reality is that Hyperspace Fool, Rising Spirit, jamie, and olympus mon are right. We may all have potential, but not everyone is going to make the same decisions. There are so many factors to consider as to what makes a person who they are. If we were all bred in some regimented, factory-like assemblage, perhaps we would be more alike in many ways. But that's not how it is, and the planet is full of all different potentialities expressed through a myriad of different choices and experiences. It's what makes the human race so diverse.

Like has been said, the trick is to not be too much of a dick about things and appreciate the diversity of our species. Even if that means having a little compassion for the imbeciles lined up at the drive thru. Accepting the fact that there is always someone better than you, and also someone worse. We're all here to learn something. The best we can do is lead by example and try to share the knowledge.