DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 36 Joined: 21-Mar-2012 Last visit: 26-May-2023 Location: Here
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I've been thinking about this for a while but cannot find an answer. What happens when someone extracts akaloids like say "dmt" (if legal to do in your country obviously) using a mixture of acids ? For example - Acetic acid & Phosphoric acid together. Would they end up with - Dmt Acetate, Dmt Phosphate, a mixture of both, or something else ? I'm just curious... All questions i ask here are strictly theoretical.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 36 Joined: 21-Mar-2012 Last visit: 26-May-2023 Location: Here
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Also, what would happen if one was to mix Acetic acid & Phosphoric acid (PH-4) water boils together in an A/B extrection ? All questions i ask here are strictly theoretical.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 36 Joined: 21-Mar-2012 Last visit: 26-May-2023 Location: Here
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. All questions i ask here are strictly theoretical.
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analytical chemist
   
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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you'll have a mess of excess salts, and not all of it will be dmt. acetic acid has one pka, phosphoric acid has three. (for future reference and for simplicity's sake, don't use phosphoric). "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 36 Joined: 21-Mar-2012 Last visit: 26-May-2023 Location: Here
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benzyme wrote:you'll have a mess of excess salts, and not all of it will be dmt.
acetic acid has one pka, phosphoric acid has three.
(for future reference and for simplicity's sake, don't use phosphoric).
What if the extraction was finished as-is with phosphoric acid. And the spent bark was dehydrated, then another extraction was done using vinegar to see if one could pull any more ? All questions i ask here are strictly theoretical.
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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why did you use phosphoric acid? "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4031 Joined: 28-Jun-2012 Last visit: 05-Mar-2024
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Answering for myself:
* for drinking brews: getting nice pH's with it (4 to 5) without any taste, on rue, mhrb, vine, leafs, seems to work like a charm, boiling, cold soaks, have really not noticed any shortcoming to it. Would think of phos-A as food-safe over HCl and tasteless over vinegar.
This is the first time encountering negative news about Phos-A. But the word of a reputed chemist is to be taken seriously. Benzyme, Is your rebuff on phos-A also concerning the drinkable brews, or only regarding making extracts?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 36 Joined: 21-Mar-2012 Last visit: 26-May-2023 Location: Here
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benzyme wrote:why did you use phosphoric acid? I'm just curious, as i was under the impression (originally) that Phosphoric Acid would give people better yields than vinegar. Back to my last question, what if someone would dehydrate the spent bark & start over with vinegar ? Would the phos-A evaporate off the spent bark if they dehydrated it ? All questions i ask here are strictly theoretical.
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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no, phosphoric acid isn't particularly volatile. instead (like I mentioned), you'll be left with a lot of salts. good thing you have a decent meter, you'd need to know the various pKa's of phosphoric acid, and the pKa of DMT's terminal amine, to get anywhere using that acid. Phosphoric acid is not the most extraction-friendly acid (it also degrades polypropylene). "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 36 Joined: 21-Mar-2012 Last visit: 26-May-2023 Location: Here
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benzyme wrote:you'll have a mess of excess salts, and not all of it will be dmt.
acetic acid has one pka, phosphoric acid has three.
(for future reference and for simplicity's sake, don't use phosphoric).
One more question on that. Would you mind elaborating on how exactly that would effect the end result (after basifying & pulling\freeze precipitating with naphtha) ? All questions i ask here are strictly theoretical.
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