jamie wrote:well..I have refrained from brining this up..but here we go.
The idea to me that someone is already "there" so any substance you give them they can replicate on they're own or w/e is just kind of too easy and watered down for me to digest..I know this is not suggested here but I have heard it suggested many other times when this same story has come up.
And here is why. Nature is Dynamic.
Agreed. Nature is dynamic and ceaselessly exists in a continuum of change. As symbiotic and symmetrical aspects and intricate parts of Nature, we too undergo dynamic transitions and revolving cyclical changes in our material bodies, our minds and very field of perception. Transforming from one form of energy to another form, and yet, the source of said energy is also a constant, even when in a state seeming of inertia. I believe that the constancy is the observation by the Self. More so, I believe that existence is Sacred. We each find it in our own way.
Be it Ego-self, Omniself or even the enigmatic Zero-self... a fulcrum of consciousness observes and bears witness to the flowing current of change and the exponential shifts in direct metal cognition and ceaseless transformation. I feel that consciousness is a kind of energy and undergoes movement and cessation of movement. Expansion and compression. Nature pulses along to the universal rhythm of life and here we all find common ground. Yes or no?
It's really more an issue of what conscious-awareness consists of, per frequency and magnitude. I can't recall in which book I read it, but a Native American shaman referred to "Big Medicine" and "Little Medicine". Rolling Thunder, maybe Lame Deer? I forget, I've read so many damn books. But it was about the comparison of peyote and tobacco, as entheogenic allies. Furthermore, one man/woman's experience with "Big Medicine" is another's view of "Little Medicine". It think is pretty obvious where I am going with this analogy, eh? Everything is
relative...
So, inarguably there is a relativity aspect to this specific occurrence in the life of the late Baba, regarding Neem Karoli Baba's seeming immunity (or more accurately, seeming lack of occurrence, suggesting said immunity). Meaning quite simply, if we view this from a completely rational and left-brained angel, the proper simile to draw a feasible parallel would be a scenario involved human comprehension of something as logical and provable as mathematics. As it is not esoteric and more importantly, my point can be raised quite effectively with such a comparison.
Moreover, I am suggesting emphatically that we each possess the innate capacity to become just as high as the Baba, with or without the external interaction with Sacred Medicine (psychedelic molecules). I don't want to stray off topic here, but I am pleased as punch, that our wise brother
Hyperspace Fool brought up the phenomenon of Amitra. It is key to this discussion but a bit of a derailer from the primary issues raided by the OP. That being, are all states of conscious-awareness chemical in nature?
Again, that could easily be a thread unto itself... but the main importance to it's mention is that this nectar is produced within the brain through a specificity in energy cultivation and as modicum of altering one attention/intent and direct ability to trigger certain glands within the brain itself, the pineal gland being the primary one, as well as the effect to certain brain receptors, etc... There, I said it and lightning didn't actually strike me dead! Hehehe... Lol
Thus, what happens is that the exterior need to imbibe of entheogen substances to secrete such mysterious, naturally occurring substances (nectar of the gods) becomes quite moot. And I do agree 100%, that the likelihood of Amitra containing DMT is plausibly worth further research and a more thorough, scientific study. Tragically, psychedelics are largely illegal and no funding is forthcoming to clinical researchers. Sigh...
And yes, this bring that highly and hotly debatable issue here at the Nexus, the mysterious pineal gland. That being, whether or not DMT is produced therein, or is at the very least, itself in direct contact with DMT or something chemically similar, originating from other parts of the human body (perhaps the lungs). Whereby the third eye and crown region are both activated and/or can be consciously utilized to willfully embrace dimensional skipping (astral traveling/astral projection) and visions into alternate realities.
Or it might be said that this activation acts as a direct portal of sorts, to access the attainment of wholly spiritual shifts is subjective cognition, which are nothing shy of
"tripping one's balls off". Do pardon my crude street vernacular, folks, but it applies to my hypothesis.
But lest I digress too far... I shall continue with my parabolic descriptive. Let's compare the gradual and sequential comprehension it takes an average humanoid child, to incrementally grasp an adequate understanding of calculus and trigonometry, to therefore feasibly operate within said mathematical paradigm. It's a level of comprehension absorption of specific knowledge... to absorb the information, retain it and have an ability to exercise the fundamental language it is encoded within, structurally and reasonably so, creating a capacity to enact the process correctly. Thinking on one's feet, so to speak.
I emphatically imply that the same can be said for intuitive perceptions. While the rules to the game may be divergent, the logic holds true and is applicable to any direction our attention is aimed, even when we are embarking into right-brained perceptual paradigms. Experience and adequate familiarity dictates one's degree and level of familiarity and innate ability to work within the system.
Heightened states of conscious-awareness, as working tools which open doors into alternate perceptual realities, they are no different in this regard. Those human beings who dedicate enough continued meditative practice and deeply focused concentration, be they Yogis, Shamans, Taoists, Gnostics, Buddhists, Kabbalists, Sufis or even highly spirited Dead Heads and Rainbow Warriors... they are all quite acquainted and acclimated to very expanded and elevated frequencies of existential being (as is perceivable by a human being in this particular dimensional reality), despite being on different spiritual paths and having unique methodologies, unto themselves. That being said, some things are wholly Omniversal.
In short... (Who me, brevity? Don't you believe it guys! For
RS is long wind blowing cosmic dust)... but seriously, it's not at all that this great Indian Sat Guru was immune or appeared seemingly unaffected by the high-grade LSD-25, on both occasions (administered and observed by a clinically trained expert, Dr. Alpert, himself). It's essentially more of a case that his state of conscious-awareness, itself being already so attuned to similarly expanded and elevated degrees of higher brain activity, so that it was basically of no major differentiation from his constant modality. It's not a sensitivity issue at all. It's about the state of mind and the level of consciousnesses.
In other words, when you are already as sky-high as a freaking hike, gloriously incinerating in the upper stratosphere of human experiential modality, as it interrelates to the subjective perception of the being dreaming the dream of sentient existence, ergo one man's "Big Medicine" is another's "Little Medicine" and has a small effect, as the attention is upon the really mega big levels/frequencies/states of heightened consciousness. Again, not an issue of immunity.
Now, this may be a hard pill to swallow (pun most definitely intended) for those who see shifting one's attention, activating the intricacies of the deep mind and/or entering alternate dimensions... as being resultant from the external imbibement of entheogens or extreme austerities, prolonged fasting, NDE, OBE or severe emotional trauma. Yet through direct intent and deep concentration alone, it surely is so. At least, this is my belief. It's rarefied but I feel it is true.
But this certainly cannot be proven to any skeptical scrutiny or quantifiable analysis, because it is not a state which can be feasibly pulled down to any quantifiable, pragmatic human understanding, formulated into an easily proven or procedurally recreated, rational equation. It's all a journey of awakening within the soul of the individual and their specific state of mind, undergoing a mystical experience.
And I'd like to clear the air about a few misnomers contained within this discussion. Sri Neem Karoli Baba Maharaj never said that LSD
"was nothing". This was never actually said or even implied by him. Just ask Baba Ram Dass/Dr. Richard Alpert if you'd like know the real deal. Or just read his book,
Be Here Now, guys. Some of the misquotes in this thread are a bit off-kilter. This resulted in an inaccurate paraphrasing of his utterances, initially spoken in Hindi, then translated into English and by way of re-interpretations and so, shared in a causal dialog, by way of the hit-or-miss nature of linguistic translations and personal semantics. For the end result is inaccuracy.
What he said was more along the lines of this,
"It is good for having a visitation with the Christ but then you have to return to your ordinary self, come down and loose this Samadhi (enlightenment). It's better to realize the Christ inside of yourself and then, never return to ignorance (come down from the high). Then you will not forget the Christ awakened within you". And I freely admit, I am also paraphrasing his inspired words, as well.
But he never, never, never dissed psychedelics as harmful or useless for spiritual growth and understanding, as some Gurus have... or said they were irrelevant to the spiritual awakening of a humanoid individual in transition from the mundane to the Sacred. His example and teachings were simply in another realm of experience, a Yogic pathway. All road lead t the present, all paths arrive at the same epiphenomena and summits in Divine Gnosis. The Godhead pulses within each of us.
He knew very well that histrionically in India, entheogens formed a HUGE part of the earliest inspirations written of in the Rig Vedas and Yogis used many psychedelic elixirs (Soma), including the use of hashish, to alter and elevate their awareness. He was clearly stating that through Sadhana (contemplation, cultivation of internal energy and deep meditation), regardless of cultural methodology, religious lineage or specificity in practice/methodology... was the only permanent way to change and fully bloom. Such a way removes the polarity of the rise and fall from the cycle of peak experiences. Hence, it is the most direct path.
Likewise, he never publicly or as far as I know, privately, refuted the authenticity or validity of the Shaman's path traveling along the Medicine Way. He simply loved everyone, with tremendous equanimity and nonjudgmental impartiality. Again, we're comparing apples and oranges and that is totally whack.
And also, his primary message was that one can eventually LIVE in this heightened frequency of perceptual cognition. Easier said than done,surely, and that's an understatement! And sure... it's far, far easier to take a hit of Acid, munch on some Shrooms or vape some Spice. And it's all good. You people rock!!!
With unwavering persistence and familiarity with or educated degree of understanding, we can all reach this state of mind and existential paradigm. From a meditative perspective, it's all a matter of our focus, attention, attunement, our degree of intent and capacity to open up and simply allow for spiritual cultivation/ personal growth.
Peace out Folks! There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.