http://www.timewheel.net...an-Yogi-Neem-Karoli-Baba


What do you think about this video?

Do hallucinogens remove a filter in our brain and let us "see" the fabric of the Universe and be one with the universal consciousness?

Is some people born without that filter?

Can you remove that filter? Without going clinically insane

I feel like the guy never ate the LSD and only pretended to. That story have been discussed many times and been pretty much debunked as far as I am concerned. I think even Ram Dass doubted it.

Lets put it this way..I don't believe this guy is any more holy or enlightened than certain people who the native americans or other cultures might concider "holy", or whatever terms they use. Why does peyote still work on a peyote roadman or ayahuasca still work on ayahuasqueros? In the amazon a sign that you are a powerful shaman is that you need LESS medicine to get off. To them for it to just not work for you would be a sign of your weak shamanry.

Shouldn't a tuned in and sensitive nervous system be even more sensitive, and not less?

I dunno, I just don't buy it for one second. These gurus make a lot of weird claims and I think a lot of it is just bs. I think that a lot of things are possible that we never concider, but that does not mean I just believe anything..and the idea that decades of spiritual practice makes one immune to LSD is one idea I don't believe. Ask anyone here and they will pretty much all tell you meditative and spiritual practices seem to make you more sensitive to psychedelics, not more tolerant.

Now that I think about it.... You're probably right. That was my first reaction; 1) He's lying. 2) He was already tripping balls on something else. 3) He was already tripping balls on his own natural juices.

Maria Sabina felt the effects of the mushrooms every time she took them.

Maybe it was just me trying to believe that there's a way to get to the same place without the use of hallucinogens.

And, you are right about saying that a sensitive person needs less to breakthru...

But you have to agree that that guy looks high on all those pictures lol....

Some thouhts on this:

Practice of meditation and especially pranayama (which are elongated breath by means of techniques), the brain will learn to go into altered states.

When practicing meditation before taking mushrooms for example, the change between a non-intoxicated state into a mushroom trip can be less noticable. They do occur ofcourse, but with significant practice certain aspects of entheogenic realms can become accesible without plants or chemicals (just like lucid dreaming can be practiced).

After not practicing for a while this access will fade away though.

So this could mean that some people can have an easy time taking high doses of psychedelics for they already have some training to cope with it. Though I read the story of Ram Dass and thought it a bit exeggerated.

Yes, yes and yes. Psychedelics don't actually "remove a filter', they activate previously dormant areas of our brain and so, our entire perceptual mechanism.

While I've only practiced deep meditation for a mere 39 years, I can say that it is a path that leads to similar changes in one's conscious-awareness. I state this with the cravat that my training has been that of a 20th/21st century westerner. I cannot compare it with Neem Karoli Baba Maharaj's intensive spiritual practices. And unless one sits alone is Himalayan cave for decades placing one's fixed attention upon the Divine Field, how can any of us even remotely comprehend what changes in the mind and body can take place?

This is a man who spent over 70 years doing very extreme degrees of meditation and austerities. He was one of perhaps four or five human beings within India, in that specific era (who were publicly known), to have become so keenly attuned to higher degrees of altered consciousness. I don't doubt it for a second and neither does Ram Dass. The mind is an open doorway into an infinite expanse of possibilities in perceptual reality. Let's all find our own way and respect those of other travelers.


I respectfully disagree and this is certainly not so, jamie. You've discussed this occurrence with Dr. Richard Alpert? I've spoken to Ram Dass about it in detail and I'll remind the readers of this thread that he was there... and you my impetuous young friend, were not. Your emphatic degree is in and of itself, BS.

This Sat Guru was completely naked save for a simple loin cloth made of cotton and Dr. Alpert spent the entire day with him. This volume of Sandoz LSD-25 would make all of us involved in this discussion trip heavily for at least 12+ hours.


You are comparing apples to oranges, Brother. All paths have their methods and the Medicine Way is reliant upon the external stimulation from a chemical catalyst. It's a beautiful thing, really, but the two ways are quite different approaches to exploring the limitlessness of conscious-awareness. I've walked both roads as one for some time now and they are symbiotic aspects of one experience.

In your own personal paradigm, there is only one way to activate the higher centers of ones spiritual being and that's cool, it's your own truth. But don't be so cocky about claiming such Indian Masters are charlatans and/or are fraudulently pulling a scam on naive observers and blind sheep following their Yogic teachings in a nonobjective manner. It's most disrespectful to both Ram Dass and anyone who have personally discovered the wealth of practicing meditation, as a way of life and a method for deep spiritual exploration.

There are no limits to conscious-awareness, there are only our own limitations in belief, exercised through our habitual intent and our focus of attention. May we all be as high and open as we can be, whatever our paths or methodologies. Peace out, guys!

Hey Rising Spirit, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't I recall a story about when you gave Ram Dass some LSD and he said something along the lines of people giving him psychs was a common occurrence?

I love reading your posts as usual

I believe you missed the point in the video where he's talking about methods that the point was that his method of just using drugs wasn't the only way and that other methods such as church or other spiritual practices can be just as valid.

Ram Dass had physical brain complications and suffered a stroke in his later life. I read his book and seen some of the interviews, and a lot of his insights were beneficial... but the amount of acid/mushroom trips he allegedly claimed to have undergone leads one to question; wouldn't the hallucinogenic "medicine path" strain the physical system to a damaging degree? I've tripped a good number of times, but it was in the dozens, not hundreds, and all sparingly spaced out... but I feel like repetitive overindulgence in psychoactive substances just can't be good for the brain. What say you Rising Spirit?

None of that has me convinced of anything..and I was referring to the idea that years of spiritual practice makes one immune to LSD. If you have some experience with that happening than please share it, but for the time I do think it is BS.

I never said anywhere on this website ever that I think psychedelics are the only way to get to some of these states, EVER. Your putting words into my mouth and I don't know where you get that from... I have said the exact opposite many times and have discussed this in length over and over so many times it is redundant..but getting there via meditation or random occurance has nothing at all to do with that somehow then making one immune to LSD.

I say show some kind of evidence..ANY evidence..personal experience or anything. I have never ever heard of such a thing happening outside of this one case. There was gurus and yogis all over india that were absolutely fascinated with LSD at that time..

"Maybe it was just me trying to believe that there's a way to get to the same place without the use of hallucinogens."

That's not the issue. The issue is how that makes one immune to LSD..which no one else is addressing, but instead going into detail about some other discussion.

Maybe the "pills" were stored improperly in his backpack in the heat of India and lost their potency. Also perhaps it wasn't the case that he was immune to the LSD so much that his perception may already be so radically altered from what you or I would consider normal consciousness that it simply reflected what he already could perceive.

Im glad SOMEONE called out this pervasive attitude.

No, no, no... Alert, I didn't give Baba Ram Dass any LSD or any other entheogen, although I may have referenced an experience in which I was physically present, when he received something psychoactive, a loving gift from a fellow explorer and compatriot. The story was about when I first met him in 1980, at Colorado University, following one of his lovely talks. After the rap session, which is 60's/70's vernacular for a heady discussion, about 20 or 30 people all lined up to give Dr. Richard Alpert/Baba Ram Dass a big hug. It was a beautiful scene full of unabashed love and high emotions. I still tear-up when I think about it now, decades later.

I patiently waited in the nearby shadows of the side-stage, off to the distance of the saccharin love-fest, with my older brother David, preferring to be last place in this moving hugging collective. Nice folks! There was a very high cat with long dreads and top-to-bottom, clothed in faded Guatemalan cotton, beaded and bedecked with Rainbow Gathering Magik, all over him. He was just ahead of me in line and he embraced Ram Dass heartily and afterwards, brought out a folded-over piece of tin foil from his pocket. He carefully opened it up and it held about a dozen bright blue microdot hits of acid. Typically about 250 mics. Back in the 1970s, LSD was often dropped on small disc-like tiny pills, called "microdots"... (potent little devils).

Baba Richard smiled and brought a plastic Bayer Aspirin container out of his pocket and said, "I think I can find a good use for these". I got a good look into the aspirin container... and it was almost 1/2 full of various magikal pills of different size and color. I am almost ashamed to say today, honestly to all of you good folks... that I was then myself, full of righteous indignation and held onto a puritanical sense of right and wrong. Whether Yogic or Shamanic... I wanted reality to fit into my fragile mold of this and that. But hey, we all grow up eventually, right?

Nowadays, I have got one foot firmly on the Yogic/Taoist/Buddhist spiritual realms and simultaneously and most naturally, I am keeping one foot on the Sacred Medicine Path. As cliche as it sounds, "All is One"... and surely, each road with any depth of heart, leads directly to this living, present moment... right here & now, a miracle in the making, an eternity unraveling in all of it's multidimensional, holographic unfolding. Life is a trip!

But I was still in my "purification" phase and had done no drugs or Sacred Medicines for several months. My mind was practically aghast, that one of my spiritual mentors still imbibed in psychedelics after embracing a life of Yogic Sadhana... or at least, passed it along to others to imbibe. Talk about Bullshit! My bad...

So, there I stood as he looked me point-blank, strait on and so openly, directly in the eyes. He obviously saw the shocked look on my face and you know what? He was completely empty! There was no ego present to be accused or condemned by my judgmental attitude.... just a vibration of love and joy. I instantly melted and felt embarrassed by my reaction. After all, it was LSD that had brought me to the spiritual path and I owed this great man a huge "Thank you, dear Sir" for his efforts to promote expansion of consciousness and the art & science of meditation. You know what? He just stood there serenely, beaming warmth and kindness at me.

Suddenly freed of my uppity head-trip, I spontaneously reflected the loving vibration and said with as much sincerity as I could muster, "Your books and lectures have been very inspiring for me, spiritually. I love you. Thank you for turning me onto God."

He smiled broadly like the Cheshire Cat and replied, "I love you too. Thank you, for turning ME onto God." We embraced and both began to laugh. He was then and still is now, a very cool and totally spiritual guy. I only met him one other time, then in a less public setting, but I still deeply honor, love, respect and admire him very, very much.

His early work with Dr.s Timothy Leary and Ralph Metzner, explosively impacted a whole generation of psychonauts and spiritual seekers. They co-authored the classic Hippie Bible, The Psychedelic Experience: A Manual Based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

Dr. Alpert/Baba Ram Dass went on to teach and lecture for decades and was devotedly involved with Dr. Elizabeth Kubler Ross's compassionate and highly significant work on death and dying. A giant of man with a profound degree of humility and humanity. My eyes water, just thinking about how bright and joyful he is in this world of push n' shove, ego conflict and indulgent selfishness. I will always hold a special place in my heart for Baba Ram Dass. His devoted work an service continues to offer peace and universal understanding, to this very day.

May he shine brightly, forevermore and be a beacon for the openhearted lovers and clear-minded Spirit dancers, shining brightly in this human paradigm! And I wish the same blessing for each and everyone of you good peoples. This forum rocks!!!

Sorry to ruffle your feathers jamie, because I do admire you and truly think you are a cool person. But how could I possibly supply "evidence" of a humanoid who shows the external effect of being, as your term it, "immune" to LSD"? I'd offer a couple relevant similes and analogies, if it helps to clear the rift in our acceptance of symbiotic, compatible linguistic semantics.

Picture a scene. You have been tripping balls on mushrooms and because you are so damn fortunate, you hit the peak with a huge lung-full of vaped Spice. Heavenly delight! After a spell, a friend comes up with a fat doobie of kind bud. He's grinning from ear-to-ear, high as a kite and offers you first toke. He says enthusiastically, "This herb will blow your mind!" It's all relative. You get my drift, right?

It's my belief that one such as Sri Neem Karoli Baba Maharaj was already in a state of highly expanded consciousness, pretty much all of his waking and even sleeping experiences and I know many others who will attest to the same opinion. Just sayin'... and I feel that your skepticism is ill-placed in this regard.

Please understanding my natural defensiveness, in regards to these fine humanoids, mentors and teacher for many of us travelers. And I also love and respect you too, man. Please accept my objection to your presentation of your ideas and conceptual formatting, with some modicum of impartiality... and I will sincerely bear you the same good will. OK?


Sorry if I stereotyped your response or made it seem as if you were not also exploring many other valid avenues into higher states of inter-dimensional consciousness, my Brother. Maybe I am too quick to react? If so, please forgive my behavior. Previously, I labeled you a "Pantheist" and now I have thoughtlessly insulted you. My bad, jamie. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive my own, admittedly impetuous statements about your statements. my heart wasn't really in it, my ego was... so I beg for your understanding. Cause you rock, dear Brother.

Again, it's not an immunity issue, IMHO, it's exactly about where one is coming from, when an entheogen blooms inside of our physical bodies and how it affects our individual awareness, producing an effect relative to the imbiber of the Sacred Medicine.

And despite what has been suggested in this thread, the LSD was in fact quite active and more potent than the acid available today. So many Hindu and Buddhist Sadhus, Yogins and Fakirs tripped their brains out whenever Dr. Alpert/Ram Dass gave them a strong dose of his traveling head-stash, considerably more perfectly or at least, more clinically & scientifically synthesized, than today's street acid circulating about. We're talking about genuine Sandoz product, good people!



As difficult as it may seem to be for you to accept as factual, some earth beings are already in a level of conscious-awareness by which they are not specifically immune, but rather, these few exceptions are so accustomed to higher frequencies of mind, subtler vibrations of attention... that LSD or any major psychedelic impacts them little, if anything at all. Many others found it either a great spiritual boon and moving inspiration or in some cases, not so much of a boost in their attunement and focus or understanding. Only Sri Neem Karoli Baba appeared to be "immune" to the powerful Medicine he ate a hog's portion of.

Sure, this is extremely rare and I will put myself on the record as saying these infrequent humanly incarnated terrestrial beings, are just exactly what we each and everyone of us, have the potential to directly embody such dimensional blooming, just as soon as we allow ourselves to open up to the possibility and reality of such an effulgent state of illumination/enlightenment/spiritual awakening (with or without the sage council of entheogens). Again, just sayin'... and I do bow most deeply to you in humble respect.

Lol! A mere 39 years. Much respect to you good sir.

I have tremendous respect for a persons meditation practice and that kind of discipline is something I wish for myself someday.

I don't see what is to be proved or disproved from a man able to not feel effects of a psychedelic substance.
I think the water gets cloudy when discussing Baba this, Guru that. There is massive deception and charlatans within these spiritual and religious cultures. Although I personally do believe that it could be possible for a person to do this I can see why Jaime is skeptical. Outlandish claims are abundant with Yogi's through the centuries. Living on air and sunlight for a life time, ability to appear in 2 places at once, not to mention the plethora of busted levitation's does make an outsider skeptical.

I have deep respect and love for Ram Dass. His words have helped me over the years. Thats pretty special R.S. you got to hug the man not just once.

I like the part of your story in which you catch yourself with just a gaze putting your self imposed judgments for the man accepting a gift of LSD. I see this a lot in South America. People up and leaving the healing center because they see a shaman eating chicken, or charging money for ceremony. I always thought how outrageously arrogant one must be to box a person into what they feel they should be. Good for you to recognize this happening and all from a peaceful gaze of a man at peace with himself.

Cool story R.S. thanks

i suppose its possible to have immunity to LSD for an enlightened mind

i have personally seen many people trip on LSD and freak out with thoughts , fears and paranoia , while there are a handful of people who enjoy the music , breathe deeply or dance and have fun

now those who are not freaking out and having fun .......its possible these people are more immune to LSD but that is not the case i believe

My own Guru's first and last instructions , order for me was to ..." enjoy the moment forever " .....

those who have learnt how to enjoy themselves to that degree will never freak out since they have learnt how to be sane i guess

i myself have been listening to music as sadhna ......its a little different from other techniques i guess yet pratically it makes my mind stronger and stronger and whenever i take psychadelics i feel much better than those who are busy with ordinary materialistic life worrying about this or that

its totally possible when Ram Dass gave babaji LSD , babaji enjoyed himself and had a good time unlike other people who freak out since babaji was intune with the moment , i am not saying the LSD had no effect , yet the effect was perhaps much clearer and more different than what other were getting with confused minds

there are always people who are going to have a good time and others who will freak out , i mean thats what the psychedelics have taught me , if you learn to enjoy yourself the trip is way different than freaking out or paranoia ..... it is infact pure clarity

GREAT video, THANK YOU! I really need to start meditating more often.
Perhaps the guru did have effects, but was able to control his actions.

May be the enlightened mind releases a compound similar to LSD,
and fits in the same receptors, effectively blocking the pills taken.

Or he could of secretly been on LSD the whole time! Naaahmmm, lol.

That guru looks permafried already and i have had friends that look quite serene in spite of the psychedelic maelstrom that is taking place internally. So it is entirely possible that he is already riding the wave. Also i remember doing microdots of various colours but it was quite a while ago. Can you not get them anymore?

I am also sceptical about gurus. All that foot touching and hanging on their every word gives me the willies. 70 years of extreme meditation is incredible! Who knows where this could lead? If this guru was a friend of mine, perhaps i would advise him to get out a bit more often. Go out for a few beers, meet some girls, maybe go to a few pop concerts. I think too much of one discipline could be detrimental to your social life and mental state inspite of any advantages that may have been gained.

But i agree with RS saying that we need to find our own way and respect other travellers. meditation does look appealing, in moderation. If having a guru makes you happy or helps to round up a few lost sheep then why not? Each person"s truth is their own.

I don't think it is correct to assume that the LSD had no effect on the baba...

It has been many years since I read the accounts from Leary and Ram Dass, but I seem to recall Leary saying that the guru was unfazed and unimpressed. That by saying "It is nothing." or something to that effect, he was merely indicating that he can get higher without it.

If a guru is able to produce Amrita at will (a saliva based liquid that is theorized to be full of tryptamines and beta-carbolines) then LSD would seem quaint and somewhat tame to them. My experiences of Amrita seem to bear out this idea, whether or not pure N,N DMT is involved or not... it is certainly possible for me to stimulate my 3rd eye enough to get to a Hyperspace that is basically identical to the one I reach with tryptamines. I have a thread going now about Taoist Master Mantak Chia's theories about endogenous tryptamine and beta-carboline production here.

If you don't see how someone could be unimpressed with LSD... imagine being in a K-Hole, peaking on Ayahuasca, or deep in the 3rd Plateau and having someone come to you with some super chronic ganja. It may or may not even get you high. And even if it was noticeable, it would mostly be because it brought you down from your current high.

In the height of my LSD days as a young teen, I frequently would sit down and meditate for hours on end, and not participate in the shenanigans of my friends. I could go so deep that by the time I came around, they were all long gone... often off to sleep or whatever. To them, it could have seemed that I had little or no effect... though that would be wrong. It is just that a regular meditator is much better equipped to handle and use a psychedelic than someone who isn't.

Anyway, nice discussion here.

It seems Terence's recount of giving DMT to a wise old yogi met with similar results. To the yogi this wasn't new territory or astonishing or exciting by any means, he was just like yep that's as far as you can go in and still come back out.

In the end the molecules are just keys to states of consciousness, if it's true that the guru resides in godhead consciousness, adding LSD is like trying to unlock a door that's that is already wide open.