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DMT and the pineal gland...residual effects? Options
 
Crystalline
#1 Posted : 9/12/2013 8:17:14 PM

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Hello again fellow nexians,

I was having a conversation with my brother last night. While I have never heard of this and can't seem to find any evidence to support his claim it does seem plausible. He says from long term use of DMT, the pineal gland will start secreting less and less dmt until it may even completely stop production which would impact sleep, cause anxiety, and other disorders. Obviously, that is more than troubling as I do love this molecule so much. Is there any support to his claim that you guys may have insight to?

Thanks!
~NS
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a1pha
#2 Posted : 9/12/2013 8:20:02 PM


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Nexus Science wrote:
He says from long term use of DMT, the pineal gland will start secreting less and less dmt until it may even completely stop production which would impact sleep, cause anxiety, and other disorders.

Total BS.

If you're going to use the name "Nexus Science" then maybe you should put a little science into your posts. There is still zero evidence that DMT is produced in the pineal. Therefore, your brother is talking out of his arss. All of this can be found using the search tool and a little time spent researching past posts on the subject of DMT and the pineal.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -A.Huxley
 
endlessness
#3 Posted : 9/12/2013 9:04:39 PM

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BoKuDen
#4 Posted : 9/12/2013 10:50:06 PM

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I'll just leave this here, make of it what you will.

"This methodology must now be applied to determine the potential role of these compounds in non-drug induced altered states of consciousness with psychedelic features, such as dreams, psychosis, meditation, religious experience, childbirth, and near-death states and we are very eager to do so. This effort has been made even more important following the recent discoveries of Cozzi et al. (5) that the enzyme responsible for synthesis of the endogenous hallucinogens is present in pineal gland, brain, spinal cord and retinal tissues of primates and appears to be an inducible enzyme, an enzyme that responds to specific signals. Therefore, clearly establishing the role of endogenous tryptamine hallucinogens in various states of consciousness will provide tremendous insight into their origin, and may lead to more reliable means of working with and studying their utility."

http://www.cottonwoodresearch.org/dmt-update/
"The more one is able to articulate what it is, the less others are able to understand."
I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars.
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Vodsel
#5 Posted : 9/12/2013 11:08:22 PM

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We already made a long discussion out of that, if you want to take a look.

In any case, between the possibility of DMT being produced in the pineal and the speculations with no basis you quoted about long term use of DMT, there is a very long shot.
 
universecannon
#6 Posted : 9/12/2013 11:45:16 PM



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Nexus Science, thats just a circulated rumor. I'd let your friend know that theres no hard evidence that is the case. And even if we assumed that the pineal produces dmt, the fact that many of us who've used dmt a lot over the years have noticed life getting more and more interesting/psychedelic, and not the opposite as your friend suggests, seems to go against his line of thinking Razz

BokuDen, That study has been discussed in a thread here if you want to take a look. Its great to see more research like this but as others pointed out it still isn't proof that the pineal produces dmt, just that it contains it.

Having said that I do think its a bit of a stretch to dismiss all of this as not some form of evidence, however small and inconclusive it may be, in support of the hypothesis that the gland could produce dmt. It doesn't prove it, obviously... not even by a long shot. But its confirmed presence there does increases its chances of actually being produced there, as opposed to its confirmed absence. And when looked at in the context of several other things that are often neglected, it gets much more interesting... such as:

The correlation between dmt/aya experiences and other altered states produced through various activities that have been shown to increase pineal activity: such as meditation and dark rooming (one study a decade or two ago found a massive increase in melatonin production just after meditating for an hour, iirc). I wrote a paper exploring all of this for a cognitive neuroscience class a while ago and during the presentation for fun i decided to have the class try and tell the "sober" trip reports I'd gathered together apart from the ayahuasca/dmt trip reports, and they couldn't even tell the difference after reading both. Not all altered states produced without ingesting a psychedelic are similar, of course, but there is loads out there that are similar to these dmt/aya states.

We know the pineal also produces MAOI like pinoline, and supposedly other MAOI as well...So part of what makes this more interesting to me personally is that many of us do enter states very similar to dmt/harmalas without ingesting them, whether it be spontaneously in the dark or while using practices that have been shown to increase pineal activity. Even just taking melatonin, (which has been shown to increase its activity as well), can have a powerful tryptamine/maoi type of effect, especially if taken in prolonged darkness

We know that the pineal is way more active in the dark (its light sensitive, neato)... and week+ long retreats into pitch black caves for shamanic purposes was a very common practice all over the place in ancient times and even right into the present in some cases...and these were said to induce visionary states. Today there is retreats where dozens of people, many completely unfamiliar with psychedelics, have claimed that after many days in the dark things get weirder and weirder, and to me their reports sound very similar to an intense and integrative ayahuasca experience. (This can't just be dismissed as the effects of sensory deprivation alone since they are often engaged in physical/vocal exercises, conversation, and other things.)

Of course, this doesn't prove anything, and is mostly anecdotal. I've come to no conclusions and am skeptical, but open to the possibilities. I just think this makes it much more interesting to me personally and that its far too rare that we see these other factors/lines of investigation considered in the overall context of these sorts of discussions.... There is a lot of rumor and BS out there, of course, but often times I see people taking a reactionary position due to this, where they are flat out against the possibility. I think its good to keep a level head and not let the emotions get in the way of reasonably assessing what we know, despite all the rumor and misinformation. And right now we just don't know for sure either way.



<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
 
BoKuDen
#7 Posted : 9/13/2013 12:46:36 AM

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gotcha, i wasn't aware of the other thread discussing the research, thanks for the link.
"The more one is able to articulate what it is, the less others are able to understand."
I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars.
Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
Our Great War's a spiritual war. Our Great Depression is our lives.

 
 
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