Hi!
Do the Asian Mimosa trees commonly found in the southeastern US (Albizia Julibrissin, Google tells me), have any entheogenic value? My guess is no but they are in the same family as MT and seem to be structurally similar.
I was curious and thought I'd get some input from educated people.

Thanks!

Thanks!

I can't answer that question, but what a mellifluous name for a tree:

Albizia Julibrissin


It sounds like some distant peninsula, a desert flower, an ancient ritual, a goddess, a character from a novel of speculative fiction, a species, a hermetic tradition, a dusty old book and a very difficult sexual position all in one.



JBArk

An excellent description!

I saw this tree in my local travels and upon returning to the park found half a dozen.

It's been about 4 weeks since I first spotted the flowers and attempted to I.D. this tree, which was easily possible due to its beautiful, unique, white/pink flowers. I thought it was a Mimosa tree, which prompted me to identify it.

It's been misnamed "Mimosa Silk tree" or "Mimosa tree" but was originally called "Persian Silk Tree" and was introduced to North America from Italy.

I figured I'd start with my firsthand experience and then follow up with some sources of research, as trip reports are commonly the area of interest but scientific research should always be accessed before someone attempts to identify and ingest any plant.




Wikipedia entry

I don't know if Wikipedia sources are frowned upon on this forum for being unreliable but that is that and remains mostly descriptive. I found much more interesting, substantial information on A. julibrissin and you can google the images of the flowers, they are quite impressive and stand out from almost any flower I've seen as being unique. But here's the real science on A. Julibrissin which I also refer to as "Persian Silk Tree:"



Michael Tierra L.Ac., O.M.D., Founder of the American Herbalists Guild
http://www.planetherbs.com/spec...e-tree-of-happiness.html

And also:



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17477962

Also:


http://www.zoores.ac.cn/EN/abstract/abstract2641.shtml

When I first looked it up I saw research identifying it as an enhancer of all monoamine transport, but unfortunately can't locate it at the moment. I believe I was identifying the main active alkaloids and then researching their effects individually. There's also research identifying its alkaloids as an anti-obesity drug and potent free-radical scavenger (antioxidant).

There's plenty of research on this one, including the alkaloids all being identified: one could look them up individually. A person should not mix this kind of herb with antidepressant drugs or CNS depressants and you shouldn't operate any heavy machinery while taking this herb. Also it's been discussed as a circulatory enhancer so anyone on blood thinners or heart medication shouldn't use this without caution.

I doubt this triggers a false positive for benzos or barbituates but should be positively ruled out if that's anyone's concern.

Always consult your doctor before introducing herbal medicines into your health regimes.

It's worth noting that the seeds from this tree are being passed off as Mimosa seeds in some places, reports one Nexus member. This could also be done hypothetically with the whole tree so make sure you positively identify your seeds and plants. The kind of person who does this should be discredited and their reputation affected if possible if you happen to have a similar outcome, in my opinion.

Great stuff sOrce! Thanks for conducting this research!
How long would you say the effects lasted from the smoked flower?
When referring to the bark blunt you say "halfway thru this one". I'm assuming the effects were felt when the cigar was half smoked? Did you continue to smoke after feeling the effects?

I researched this tree back in the 90's when I was looking for local aya ingredients...it's also been used as an anti-depressant in chinese medicine for centuries. I've never heard of the effects of the smoked flowers...very nice...sounds like possibly a good admixture plant for changa....

The effects of smoking the flower on a clear head lasted for hours and tapered off so gradually as to diminish unnoticeably over time with no bad effects.

I got maybe 100g of the bark today and 5g of that in a tea is superb. Really strong, calming uplifting effect, all anxiety diminished and a kind of pre-dream state without noticeable sedation, just the feeling that you could relax and nap anytime if you wanted to. I think some alkaloids might be destroyed by burning, that's always good to know anyhow but takes more research than has been done on this one I think.

One of the trees is not maintained so I broke off all the dead branches I could reach and took them home. It's also like 12 feet high and there were dried flowers in the leaves so I grabbed all those and got like 4g of flowers but I like the bark better.

The alkaloid profile is very similar to Pseudoacacia Robinia which I also did a writeup for but never posted for my own reasons, this tree has the alkaloid distribution in more convenient places without toxicity and is far more worth pursuing. Pseudoacacia Robinia is tricky to work with, the bark can kill a horse but the flowers are edible and such, the seeds and pods are active but have to be heated. Do not pursue Pseudoacacia Robinia based on my comparison, you'd have to do tons of research to mess with it confidently and it's not nearly as user friendly as Persian Silk Tree.

The flower smoke is not the best-tasting but the tea is good, and you can flavor it with its own leaf.

I meant half of a blunt wrap was used to roll and smoke one typical sized but somewhat thick joint, not the 5-6 inch deal..

I'm wondering about the potency of the seeds but it's not time to collect them... Also I don't recall the safety profile but I think they're edible. The pods might be as potent as the bark but further research is necessitated. I'll be growing this ornamentally next spring for sure

Glad I could add to the thread and contribute experiences. I really like this herb, I don't smoke cannabis at the moment and this fits nicely in my routine for most purposes. In fact, really all of them. If anyone wants to research each alkaloid and highlight the interesting ones I'd be excited for that, but some are merely circulatory enhancers or cancer fighters or metabolism boosters or aromatase inhibitors probably, as in the case of Pseudoacacia Robinia (Black Locust) another active fabacae without the Mimosae or Acacia similarities per se.

was this 5gs of dried bark? i wonder if fresh vs dried makes a difference

I wondered that too, I thought about it on the spot, but these trees are small (except for the one with all the dead branches, which is almost 2x the size of the pruned trees.) I reassured myself that the plant oils would dry in the bark and be left behind as I tied together the bundle of sticks.

I actually came on to post an update- I did two experiments yesterday- one at 5 pm with 5 grams with a noticeable and pleasant effect (and another with 10g, see below):


I had read where 3-5g is a daily dose. I can't link to the information or even quote it because it was a vendor site for ethnobotanicals- one I definitely bookmarked as being worth using in the future. A. Julibrissin came just after Acacia Confusa alphabetically on their list of dried ethnobotanicals.

I will say one difference about the dried bark- it's hard as heck to peel with a vegetable peeler... not impossible, but the fresh bark comes off in nice strips while the dried bark is tough to strip and comes with the pulp. SO I may have only used 2 g of bark yesterday at 5 pm, which says even more to me about the strength of this plant's alkaloid concentrations.

It's worth saying that stress, seasons and such can concentrate alkaloids considerably, and the growth on this tree that I harvested may have been from last year or so, so it's anyones' guess as to what the differences may be. I'll prune a fresh branch again at some point and attempt to quantify the differences firsthand (by dosing equal weights).

All that being said, last night at 12 am it felt like all of the evening's tea had worn off and I was ready to crash so I brewed up 10 grams- 10 grams dry weight, maybe more bark than adhered pulp but precision wasn't my concern at the time (sorry ) It was from the dried branches, diameters were around a .25 to .65 inch (two sections) and I shaved them with the peeler. I have 2 good veggie peelers so I really don't care what happens to them (I get a lot of free stuff from eviction sidewalk sales or what have you and really almost never buy anything much).

Anyway strips of bark with some pulp, I'd guess the bark actually only accounted for half the dry weight. I'll be more precise in the future. I balled up the bark in my hands and put it in my portable coffee grinder and made it into finely chopped/somewhat powdered bark for tea. Heated it with half a quart jar (pint) of boiling water for 5+ minutes on a rolling boil, added a bit more water and heated it again for five minutes. Then took it off the heat poured the bark and the water in the jar which was already half full of ice water. Oh I forgot to mention I steeped a few leaf sections for flavor with the bark- the leaves are supposedly totally inactive but they taste good...

So it was lukewarm, I stuck a reusable straw (HDPE) that I have for icey drinks in it and sipped from the bottom corner with the shredded bark as a filter of any loose pieces. Drank it over the course of a half-hour to an hour and then went to bed to read for a bit.

This was on an empty stomach- I did eat some oatmeal when I was 3/4 way through with the tea though.

Brewed at 12 AM. No other substances ingested except Gabapentin 300 mg at 1 AM which is a normal maintenance dose for me that I've been using 2x day for 3 months.

0:30 halfway down, similar calming effects, alert, one effect I've been noticing is compulsive thinking or racing thoughts of any kind are seen in the third person perspective- that is, self-created anxieties completely alleviated. A break from the stuff I tell myself that might cause anxiety. (Example- I forgot to email so and so what should I do tomorrow that's pressing the dishes aren't done yet I better do them before I go to bed or.... NAAAAAH just chilling instead, and not to my detriment- dishes are easy on the substance too but half a sinkful isn't killing anyone)

1:00 things that normally occupy me are not, because sleep seems inviting. Or just relaxing in bed. I want to stretch a lot and feel like I'm breathing deeper. Surfing websites is a hindrance from what my brain and body really want.

1:15 Went to bed feeling good, made sure I'd drank all the tea and read like 10 pages from a book that I am really digging. But like the night before I was nodding and dropping the book, waking up alarmed a bit by the action and after 2x of that I closed the book visited the bathroom one last time and went to sleep. I don't remember being awake for any amount of time before I fell asleep, I think i shifted positions once or twice but was comfy as can be, slept all through the night and woke up after 7 hours.

9 AM Woke up feeling halfway in dreamland. Not sedated in the drug sense but like the sleep cycle wasn't finished. I've noted in the past that I'm a "short-cycle" sleeper supposedly so this may be the key benefit of this plant for me. Chilled in bed with the cat for a half hour then we both slept for another hour. So at ease physically and mentally, no feeling of "Heck I'll just get up and drink coffee" or "I gotta do this and this so why am I laying in bed?" I don't remember any dreams only the impression that I'd had some in the morning.

10:15 Woke up again, could have still slept but got out of bed and was calm and not groggy. No coordination loss or impairment. Still noticeably strong effects, in fact I think there's a delayed onset with the tea where you feel it more noticeably 4 hours in than you do 1 hour in with a substantial dose.

10:30 Thoughts: "Should I drink coffee? Nah that stuff has been causing me anxiety as fun as it is. Also: I'm not tired!" I think the ability to catch a longer sleep cycle may be one of the major benefits of this, and that it's not a chemical effect but a natural one.

11 AM (currently) I can feel it wearing off, I'm not gonna use it during the day and see how I feel without it (can this stuff create a dependence is one thing I'm wondering, I'll find out after I use it everyday for a week and then try to sleep without it) While I prefer the effects, I'd rather use it to return to a balance than create some kind of dependency. I'd say that whatever amount of bark I used (I'd guess 5 grams or a bit more) lasted 12 hours easily.

I think steeping it for awhile helps. It'd be really interesting to extract from this, and get a better sense for actual potency and dose differences, durations. Freebase/vape ability not for the sake of an abusable substance but in combination with other substances to calm and synergize a dream-state perhaps. Idk. These are just my thoughts, I'd love to hear from anyone else who has worked with this/smokes the flowers or can add anything.

Peace and Be Well
~Ø~

well i just harvested 8.2 gs of fresh bark with minimal pulp. ill elaborate

i got a huge stick and scraped it with my knife quickly back and forth at a right angle, allowing for easy separation of the bark from the pulp, as you could see when your scraping green.

will be tea time later today

I'd guess the alkaloids are in the green part as well as the bark but idk. The wood pulp is the much different material in my mind, the green is like either in-between or in the process of turning into bark and if alks are concentrated in the bark they'd maybe be in the process of becoming concentrated in the green part?

I forgot to add before I feel at ease and happier than my average moods today, but that could just be a coincidence. I think it's not.

I think cacao in the daytime and persian silk at night is a very basic but unbeatable legal entheogen combo for me for feeling steady (above-average) bliss.

Just for an experiment I'm simmering the rest of the bark with a splash of vinegar to see how efficient the boil was last night. The water barely changes color when you boil the bark from what I've seen.

I missed this post at first and posted my own enquiry about this herb recently. I was duly pointed here! lol

Ive just been given an, as yet, small sapling for my collection, I think it may be sometime before I can harvest any matter from her, but perhaps she'll give me some flowers next season. Ive never seen them here in the UK other than in botanical gardens, so I'll just have to be patient and make do with my Catnip and Hops tea, and the occasional joint for the moment. I look forward to her gifts, as I have a really good 'feeling' about her already.
Thank you for you post sØrce, I shall follow it with interest.

Peace and Truth

D



"Don't trust atoms! They make everything up!" ~~Unknown

This is fantastic information, s0rce! Very through and informative. Thank you! These trees are fairly common where I live. I plan to harvest some bark and make a tea. I think I'll grow a couple as well.

You're welcome

I brewed 11 g tonight and the tea was much more bitter. The bark was used from smaller branches which were darker in color (after drying). It tasted somewhat like valerian, but I just drank it so I couldn't really write much about it; I am pretty sure I boiled it for about the same time- there was less water in the end and I didn't flavor it with the leaves but the bitterness is really noticeable. It was still easy to drink.

An afterthought was that anyone giving this a try should maybe try it out in the daytime- you'll notice an effect without it being a bedtime sleepiness placebo. The overall effect is different than drowsiness but conducive to it so it might be hard to distinguish, if say, you're really tired anyway.

Prior to taking it tonight I had become somewhat naturally tired, which counteracts the idea of dependency. It's said that this bark helps restore a natural circadean rhythm- whether that's from drinking it at the same time every night or getting a good night's rest the night before or what I don't know.

I'm really impressed by its ability to facilitate a long sleep cycle in me- I've never really been able to attain that naturally. I'm already feeling it right now and pretty much expect the same result in the morning of lingering effects and the ability to acheive full rest. I couldn't see posting much more about the effects- I'd like to wake up in the middle of the night and see how I feel- except I don't really... When that happens on a few Xanax I feel high and uncoordinated.

One thing that is not all that great is how much of the branch one has to use- I couldn't really see growing a tree and expecting to harvest a year's supply or anything. Maybe half a year for a tree that's ten feet tall, idk, but it's not very practical. Not to get anyone's hopes down, I'd grow them because they're beautiful and if you had a lot of land you'd have trees all over before long. Idk, I'd have to check the growth rate, but they do produce a lot of flowers, and pruning the branches to encourage growth/for aesthetic appeal would provide plenty of bark.

Ok these effects are pretty strong tonight. I am really looking forward to hearing anyone else's experience with Persian Silk.

Peace,
~Ø~

*UPDATE: 11g might be a bit excessive. I woke up at 6 hours in with profound effects. I wouldn't call it impairment but all I was "required" to do was walk to the bathroom and back. Definitely altered and moreso than necessary, an intensewaking dream state. I did really enjoy an extra hour of light sleep in the morning and then relaxation exercises and meditation for another hour after that, but to be conservative I'll probably dose half of that when I use this at night from this point on.

Honestly it felt so much like xanax in the middle of the night, but if it were possible to design a xanax with no bad side effects or even no bad effects at all, this would be what it'd be like, in my mind.

I like this better than Kava, Valerian, or Passion Flower for the desired results. It's most like valerian but seems cleaner or smoother somehow. If I wake up on valerian in the middle of the night I sometimes feel very sedated, while no effects are felt a few hours into dosing, which makes it a less-than-ideal herb for inducing sleep unless you have a few hours the next morning and you're ok with offsetting your normal cycle, which isn't good for consistent sleep.

If strong sedation was needed for any reason, I don't have any but maybe a cross-country bus trip or something I feel like mixing this with valerian I could safely sleep over 12 hours, comfortably too.

Just wanted to tack up a picture of plant material, I get noticeable effects from 2 g of fresh material easy. Today I happened to talk to a friend who somehow has a 30 ft tall tree in his yard and I took down 50 lbs of dried wood, collected some flowers, seeds, and took down a sapling they don't want that was growing too close to the house. I don't know how well the bark from the dried wood will work, it's really dry and crumbly but the fresh green bark from the sapling is ideal, and next weekend I'm gonna transplant another beautiful little sapling about 8 feet high into a pot and put it on my deck.

I gave a section of branch for my mom to test out, as I haven't really heard of anyone else trying this yet and she never has any chemicals in her and sometimes has trouble falling asleep. Idk when she will get around to using it but I told her to report back to me on the outcome.

So attached are the pictures of a bundle of sticks which are the entire tree that was nipped, some dried and half-fresh flowers.

Oh I decided to save all the leaf stems, because this tree grows following a fractal pattern- the leaf stems selectively become the next branches and the leaves become the leaf stems... and so on. I love fractals. I wonder when I am deep in contemplative thought: "Are every things about natures suchness in the shapetitude likenessing them fractals?"

Betcha they do be in that there way someways and how.

But anyway the leaf stems show the coloration of stem (trunk and branch) bark on some of the larger leaves so they're maybe active as well. I wonder who the first person to determine that a tree's root bark is active ends up being and how? Must be noticeable DMT in other parts of the tree first I'd guess. It's all so unexplored it seems.

Did you cure the flowers at all before smoking them or did you just pack fresh flower into your bowl?

They have the consistency of corn silk and had cured in the tree with the exception of the pink ones you see there, of which were only 2 overall.

The browned ones are smokable and they are more or less air cured but not dry. I've toasted them in a 200 degreee toaster before but these were more potent just sucking a flame through them and the simultaneously dry and burn. I didnt smoke the pinkish ones, I'm letting them air cure but I prefer the bark overall, I just puff a bit of flower when an immediate head change is desired and then drink the tea to get a solid night's sleep.

The pink flowers are air curing, tacked to the wall where I'm drying some parsley and sage.

Edit: By far my favorite effect of the flowers is taking a huge toke then moving on to doing something and in quickly moving and thinking about something else you get a weird "impression" of yourself being between places- not quite in the next moment where you should be but sort of lingering in the past as an echo of your counscious state a few moments before.

Im gonna save the rest for a changa admixture with mugwort and maybe some sage

welp
8 gs of bark was soaked for 4 hours and boiled for about 10 mins, and waddya know, i smelled something burning.
i forgot the solids sink, so stirring is required
lol

anyways i drank it and it sort of tasted like a greenish-tasting portabello mushroom. not bad at all.

about 30 mins later i was sort of lethargic and yawning quite a bit. i then went out to eat with my parents and noticed i was more relaxed and sociable than average. i didnt fall asleep too abnormally fast, however i had a sound sleep. unfortunately i woke up at the same time i always do, but noticed that i could just relax and chill in my bed easily, something ive never done/noticed.

the effects the next day after drinking it were not lethargic at all and actually somewhat stimulating in a way to me. i got alot of things done and enjoyed doing them. i felt similiar throughout the next day as well.


im very glad i came across this herb, as i never expected it to do what it did.