"...the key is in the quality, not the quantity of those people. We just need several on whom we can depend and who depend on us in return."

http://www.slate.com/art...adlier_than_obesity.html

Interesting article JH.

Coincidentally, I had hovered over the link on Slate earlier and decided not to read it. Seeing it here, was that added push I needed to give it a few minutes of my attention.

I think that loneliness is a leading cause of depression... which, in turn, is quite dangerous if one wallows in it. And conversely, depression often leads to loneliness.

Over the last few years, I have felt increasingly "lonely" from time to time. It can even well up into a visceral desire for companionship and camaraderie. Trying to fill this hole can be stressful, which makes a deadly cocktail with depression. Most people these days turn to drugs (and the bad pharma kind at that), but I decided I would deal with it head on... a much more empowering solution if you are strong enough.

The first thing I realized is that, like mentioned in the article, I have no reason to feel lonely. I have a large... a vast circle of friends and acquaintances. I am not shy. I have no problem going out alone and making a dozen new friends in a single night. I was spending a lot of time alone because my work is not social and my hobbies are not especially so either, but not because I had no opportunities to be with people...

It was because I didn't want to hang out with any of the people who were available.

This was a harsh realization. Most of my core bros live far away, are married with kids, and have stressful jobs. The vast majority of people I really cared about have turned into tired old cynics... and left me nearly alone as someone out there pushing the envelope and living the dream. I am pushing 50 and never had kids.

This dearth of worthy chums is common for people in my age, sadly. There are not a lot of people who are my "peers." The people my age and up tend to look and act decades older than me. My native environs (music, travel, gatherings, hyperspace etc.) tend to be populated by people half my age. And while I enjoy the company of enthusiastic youngsters, and nearly all of the people with the freedom and inclination to follow me out into the wilds of consciousness and debauchery are younger than me... I find myself somewhat alienated from them, in that they are still making mistakes I stopped making decades ago. They are still chasing after dreams I retired half a lifetime ago. They are... well, children in my eyes.

I don't wanna put them all down, and they are doing rather well, all things considered. But, it is hard enough for average people to find true peers that are half their age... and I am anything but average. By the time I was in my late 20's I had already been around the world, studied with masters, and focused on my interests with a laserlike intensity that is next to impossible in our modern society. As someone who skipped grades in school and could get 100% on tests I didn't even study for in University... while taking LSD a few times a week and running through 7 grams of chronic a day... my peers tended to be people much older than I.

So, now I am in the odd and somewhat disappointing position of being a teacher to nearly all of my "friends," and not having any true comrades who can push, challenge and inspire me. My relationships with the people I do hang out with tend to be that of the guru/student variety, and the "normal" people of the world seem like inmates in a kindergarten lunatic asylum to my weary eyes. The "average" person is stupid, small minded, stressed, fearful, unstable, and often psychotic in my eyes. I look for the best in everyone, and try to overlook the many shortcomings, but the fact is... that any association with such people is bound to result in unwanted drama eventually. Sooner or later, most people will not only let you down, but do their best to backstab you in the process.

And so, I choose to be my own boss, and work mostly alone in the "clinical" environment of a recording studio where my word is law. I minimize contact with the crazier people and avoid bureaucracies. I have become much more selective about who I will help... who I will offer my medicine, my reiki, my shiatsu/ tui na, or my guidance. Advice is mostly free to those who are ready to hear it, and I don't mind debating with peoples' worldviews or blowing minds from time to time. But, I find myself, like most people in my position throughout history... a mildly lonely old wizard without a peer group, let alone a guild to belong to.

The Nexus helps a bit, but even here, there are only handfuls of people who know what I am talking about... and a rising tide of sheltered young know-it-alls who don't have the life experience to be truly wise, and have never had their mettle tested. While consuming and regurgitating information may pass for knowledge in academia... it is nearly worthless in the realms of experiential mysticism. You either know how to do something reliably... or you don't.

Anyway, this is getting rather long. And, I fear it makes me seem more morose and sad than I actually am. I am resigned to my situation. I could move to a place where there are more people like me, but to do so would require me sacrificing all that I have built and much of what I treasure in life. So, I am content to be an occasionally grumpy, mildly misanthropic philanthropist.

Thankfully, I have the skill in meditation and the grounding of kung fu to keep this from being a debilitating condition.

In regards to the article, it IS possible to live over 100 years smoking, eating fatty foods and having regular exposure to pathogens... if you are strong. Perhaps some "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" effect is at work.

(Note: I am well aware that that old adage is myopic and foolish if extrapolated)

Anyway... a toast to the lonely.

HF

^^awesome words HF

every word rings true and i can understand the position you're in, i am much younger and eager to follow on the paths taken by the courageous psychonauts , Wizards and great ones

thus i understand that being without peers must be lonely for you , aaah i have nothing to offer here just much to learn

Here's to you hyperspace fool and to all at the nexus..

You post was resonant and then more so.

Edit: I just sat here and read that three times.. Extremely resonant indeed. Yet I sit knowing if I was to stand eye to eye with you, I would be in the unenviable position of unwillingly perceiving you as a teacher.

Some bare bones honesty right there

Thanks ZenSpice & Jin...

Appreciate the support. I think Buju Banton says it with more of the spirit with which I made the post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPbXuXr_zf8 A guy who knows what it is like to be set up and persecuted by cruel people with narrow views. FREE BUJU

I suppose people who choose to be alone shouldn't whine about being lonely... any more than people who fast should complain about being hungry.

<3 to all you guys. May you have the rare blessing of being understood... even if it is only by a small & very select VIP list. Understanding, loving, and being loved are far easier fish to coax into your frying pan, because trying to make yourself understood is nearly always a fool's errand.

I don't know. I believe that having no real connections to people is a luxury problem. You're only lonely if there are insufficient people in your life. What your body needs is attention, touch, some sense of being embedded in a bigger whole - that's it. Quality aquaintances and friends are ....no doubt, more healing to the soul and allow you deeper realisation of your wants, needs, purposes etc.

I think it's natural selection at play. If you are worthless in terms of learned culture or genetics, you will end up lonely. Your body then speeds up the dying process so you can make room for better specimen.

In Short: Others decide if you should live or get sick and die fast.

One last point: Most people got no clue what it means to live in social isolation and have all kinds of bodily issues appear. That is because isolation stings like crazy for most people, even if you are not so isolated afterall but just not very popular.

Whatever...there is probably a point where one should accept fate.

I have no doubt there are many a varied reason for people feeling levels of loneliness or isolation. I would also be sure that many people do not feel this for an entire lifetime but for parts of their lives.

Changes in cultural living, people always on the move, a lot more of us here at once and a lot more sophisticated traps and pitfalls for one to fall into (and the whole despotic empire thing). The reasons for a soul to fall into these parts of themselves could spring up from all manner of environments or experiences. Sure, life has always been rough but most people historically have not had the potential level of awareness (locally and globally) and potential for information available that we have these days. We are in a time where one can easily find the methods used for coercing and see through the guise of propaganda. Most techniques are laid open for all to look into.

May I also say that I am not so sure about the whole isolation meaning a shorter lifespan (if I read that right, if not then apologies). Isolationist yogis in the far east, or the forest dwellers of east Europe (as two examples) tend to be pretty isolated (perhaps in a different way, depends on perception of who is reading I guess) and from what some studies indicate that again I recall reading some years ago (along with a docu of the forest people) they seem to live long lives with less illnesses and increased vitality.

Back to western neck of the woods, I reckon one can have connections with plenty of people in life that are both valid and fruitful, yet still feel lonely or isolated at times. In a society geared like ours, with such a strong consensus for mainstream forms of entertainment, I am not surprised more and more people find themselves feeling this way. I have known popular people who have woken up to their lives and seen themselves as heading down pointless paths. Attitudes change and losing a lot of friends becomes the likely consequence (for some maybe not all).

Sure they get back on track (or a better path) in time but periods of depression can naturally ensue as they try to work out a new way of going about things.. Some changes in a persons path come with a large amount of needed upheaval. It can take real resolve and applied determination to get through it.

Some of us are more able to cope with some things than others at the end of the day. Just means different challenges in life for each I guess.

Apologies for the massive response.. Just read back and realised how long it was.

Francis Petrarch has written a book called "My Secret Book."

It is a conversation between Himself (Petrarch) and an Ascended St. Augustine (bodiless)
(Bear in mind that whether he spoke to an ascended St Augustine or not, Petrarch himself penned the whole conversation)

St. Augustine says to Petrarch that no man suffers if he doesn't want to suffer.

Petrarch explains all of the genuine arguments involved. But after all, St. Augustine's seemingly theoretical point of view turns out to him to be the product of integration of intense spiritual experience, rather than theory. Though it appears to him only theoretical because he takes into account the "common" perspective of people and simultaneously forgets his own spiritual experiences.



Anyway, it's a book written by a lonely older wizard and its a book meant for lonely older wizards.

Cheers

isolation too has its healing properties if its chosen i geuss it depends on the type of personality for some oddballs it works rather than vice versa.

the movie Into the wild by sean penn kind of visually portrays this matter(a VERY inspiring movie to me)

Myself personally have found lots of magic on both sides so i wont say i prefer the one or the other as isolation kind of lets you tap deep into yourself and a good time with other people can do really great for ones memories.

Generally i prefer to be alone but i usually get social interaction from the friends i have or family who i value dearly since they have been with me through many treasured events,meeting new people is always a hassle in the sense that its usually these layers and layers and barriers of troublesome issues you have to break through with every new person and i find it hard to accomadate though i always welcome a strangers words new people mostly in genreal just drain me and i end up not being able to wait to get back home when such situations occur.

All Sound is born from silence
Be well nexians

Wow obli. Rather harsh. I am normally a fan of not pulling punches, but I disagree with your basic premise. The average person's opinion of worth is worthless, as shown by the fact that most geniuses are not social butterflies and are often unappreciated in their lifetime.

If it were up to the hoi polloi who lives longest, the world would be full of 100 year old Kim Kardashians. Honey Boo Boo would be a model of health, and Justin Bieber would be up for sainthood.

The entire concept that being alone = loneliness and that loneliness = poor health is simply not true. Mystics, yogis, saints and shaman have always sought remote locations and kept apart from the masses. And, in fact, these people are known to outlive the average man by decades.

The word sanctify means to set apart and thus make holy. Our very notion of holiness and what makes someone a great soul come from the desire such people have to be away from the masses.

I think that lesser people who desire companionship and can not find it become depressed and that this depression is bad for your health. Life expectancy for the clinically depressed is lower than that of normal people... but this can be a statistical artifact because more depressed people commit suicide.

I can only really speak for myself. I choose to spend a lot of time alone, and mostly feel great about it. From time to time, I desire some companionship and I go out. Most of the time, I return to my isolation with yet another example of why I prefer to be alone. Even when nothing really annoying or dramatic is involved, I find myself bored and feeling like my time would be better spent on one of my many never-ending projects. There are simply not enough hours in the day as it is, and to waste precious time being a character in other people's rather tawdry or petty films seems sadder to me than being alone and getting shit done.

As a DJ, I have a very fine vantage point from which to view human social interaction. People tend to forget about the DJ booth and I become a fly on the wall unless I choose to draw attention to myself. It is like being an anthropologist watching primitive human mating rituals. Or like making a documentary about some animals in the wild. As sad and inane as what most people find interesting to talk about is normally, it gets worse when they drink. Much worse. To say nothing about the fighting.

My feeling is that being around all but the best humanity has to offer inevitably leads one into their dramas. They drain your energy, and vex your spirit. They have no peace inside, and their inner conflict spills out onto the people around them. Frustrated, overworked people become abusive, and people pass that abuse on. The turd ball rolls downhill with everyone taking it out on the next weaker person until someone snaps and real drama flares up.

More people = more drama = more stress

If the drama doesn't kill you directly, stress is a bigger killer than loneliness IMHO.

Thus, the wise tend to avoid the masses. They discourage vexing people from being in their sphere of influence. Doing so enables them to achieve self-mastery. And, it is these people... the masters... that I crave the company of. Unfortunately, there are not a whole lot of them around, and, as I said, they tend to avoid other people and are mostly hermits.

Until the day I get invited to join the Mage's Guild or some other worthy gang or cabal, I will continue to prefer being alone to being with idiots. I will never be so lonely that I prefer mediocrity or morons to peace of mind. I am sure my lengthy hours in front of the computer are worse for me than my disdain for unworthy company.

Note: I am rather healthy for my age. The people I grew up with who stayed in the thick of city life all look much older than me, and have far more health issues. I have only had to see a doctor once in the last 25 years.

I like to be alone. If it was not for my gf I would be a real hermit. I cant even remember the last time I even saw one of my other friends to be honest. I see people at work, but I only work 3 days a week and wont work more.

I do try to limit my interactions with most people to some degree because, and I don't want to sound arrogant, most people bore me. I could lie and make something up about how I find all people interesting but it would not be true. In truth there are few people in this world who I find interesting. I am just thankful that the one person I love the most is one of those people. She is my best friend so I guess I am never alone..and there is no dicotmey between my world and her world. This is important for me because I don't feel compartmentalized. I know that Thursday morning when I wake up there had better be medicine ready to drink, or else I am in trouble. I don't feel lonely. I feel fulfilled.

I spent a lot of time in my life being alone. I spent my entire childhood being one of the most unpopular people.

I am thankful for that. I have always been different and growing up in this world was a living hell at times. I remember seeing counsellors who were just as jaded/clueless as everyone else. It did make me resent the world, hate school and created excessive psychological issues.

It also gave me a unique perspective on the absurdity of society, as I basically did not feel I was a welcome participant in it's game. I got to stand back from the outside and observe instead of get caught up in it. That can be extremely damaging to a youth, yet it can also be extremely illuminating.

I spent a couple years really alone in my mid 20's. I chose to not have any gf's during that time, or even bother trying to get laid etc..I mostly spent all my time alone other than when I had to go to work. I was not really lonely though. The feeling is hard to describe.

I am just happy here in my own world with my gf though. My grandfather was the same. He was a loner..

One thing I found about befriending too many people, is people tend you act like you then owe them something..as if you are held hostage to be who you were yesterday, if only because that's who they define you as. I began to realize this a number of years ago due to circumstances in my life. I stopped seeing most people during that time because I felt it was unhealthy for me to feel like I owed it to others to be someone I am not. It is an unfortunate side effect of knowing(or assuming you do) people, and I think everyone does this to some degree.

Dont need no one i dont need no body, dont need no one thats no good for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahhbt-Fy0Wg

I remember listening to this on mimosa rue, and coming to the realisation that i didnt need anyone in my life, and would actually quite prefer to live in this headspace forever.

Fastforward 2 years and i longed for human companionship hard.

Now i see it must be kept in equal balance, but no realisation is permanent

This is a great community that has much more in common with each other than different. It's a roundhouse of good, solid information as well as a safety net for those who are hurting. You are NOT alone. WE are your family. And WE are constantly growing.

Everybody, EVERYBODY, got to have love!

Yes, that would be me and that's what i was talking about. I wasn't refering to religious figures or complete introverts, but only those who suffer.



But if you are seeking companionship and can't get it, it's a terrible stressor.

That pretty much sums up how I am 95% of the time HF. And the other 5% is usually when I am collaborating with one of my closest friends on a musical project of some type. I too am happy being holed up in my humble little studio working on the next project or researching what really engages my mind rather than waste my time at some social event talking a bunch of inane shit about the latest game, reality show, etc.

I find anything larger than 4 good friends at one time to be a taxing social experience though I can function fine in that situation if need be, I just find it draining to my being. I especially value one on one interaction with a good like minded close friend.

The introverted, loner thing comes from my mums side. My mum, sister and uncles are exactly the same. I did inherit a touch of my dad's outwardness but only when it's needed.

At the age of 31 I am finally coming to terms with and embracing my inner loner and starting to stand proud in that fact, with only a bit of residual social conditioning left making me feel down about it once in a blue moon. My closer friends have referred to me as a mad scientist a number of times and I take that as the highest compliment

I have always vibed with the way you come across in your posts HF (whether it be about music, psychs or any other topic you post on). May your loner freak flag fly, it has definitely inspired me to fly mine a little higher up the flagpole after reading your posts in this thread

I like being a alone too, but not for too long. I need the social contact, but I prefer the contact with closer friends of which I don't have more than 3-4.

If I compare myself to a few years back I had the feeling I had much more friends, but the relationships weren't as deep as they are now with those 3-4 friends. So like the article says it really is the quality that counts in my opinion.

If I look at my past few years I think the following phrase says it all: I lose contact with many, make it stronger with a few.