Recent article about peyote tourism:

http://www.smh.com.au/tr...rips-20130821-2sb51.html

Interesting to see that the mayor in the end of the article actually tells it's not for us western people.
Even the Wise tribesmen are not able to share or maybe it's just another fine example of difference in perception caused by the norms and values which create our ego.

highly related.

imo grow your own loph if possible.

in the meantime satisfy yourself with achuma cuttings?

I have been doing that for some time now...

I agree on that one, and a part of my house is full with them.

Extinction imo is a good reason to halt people to harvest the little gems in nature but to say it's for Huichol only is another thing. To me it's the same as telling people in northern europe they are not supposed to eat bananas and kiwis because they normally don't grow there in nature.

Imo rituals are taken too literally. For me someone who lays down some rocks and sand in a circle with some sticks or someone who shits in a box and plants a seed in it have the same ritual value as long as the practitioner benefits from it.

In some way a lot of people seem to value ancient rituals more even to the point that exclusivity is claimed.

i agree with you about the racist connotations (only huichol can get spiritual fulfillment from this plant), but at the same time, i think the detrimental affects of psychedelic tourism is sufficient justification of this position.

if bananas were endangered, and everyone traveled to the few places where bananas are easily found, and disrupted the local economy, i would feel the same way about that too.

It can look like that, it can even mean like that, it can also mean otherwise but then that Major or reporter did not specify.

One understandable reason could be that they have tuned into the ideal approach for this plant due thousands of years of practice, and they just cry seeing people wasting a lot of potential because they do not posses this knowledge. If this is so, then it was very unlucky stated or reported.

The mayor was perhaps making a legal argument, not a spiritual one?

Good one. Didn't thought about that.

I really think it is all about "How to work with it, and for what purposes."

I had good conversation with a Huichol about this a while ago, this was the context:
The Wirikuta desert is under attacked by open mining, mostly companies of Canada having bought the rights to shred open the desert surface (bye bye peyote) and process the minerals what lead to "poisoning" of the water. Universal story but here's the point out of the eyes of the Huichol ceremonies:

The ceremonies are done NOT for personal advantage, but are the mechanics that actual and factual keeps nature in balance and running. Nature forces pivoting on the ceremonies. Take the ceremonies away and the whole nature of the earth is compromised. THAT is the real threat. Western people do not know, recognize, see, believe this to be true, and use peyote for personal purposes. This makes deep sorrow in the heart of the Huichols. Therefore I think the Major speaks his words. They really believe Peyote gave instructions what to do with it, how to do, when to do, etc, and any other use is not respecting the will of the peyote, and they are afraid for the consequences.
Their "holy trinity": Deer - Peyote - Kauyumari (the first God living in Wirikuta desert).


We are all free to call their approach BS or superstitious religion and have it our way nonetheless. But note that far away from Huicoles, very same, identically lines of thought live among the Kogi indians of Colombia, they also truly are convinced that their (Coca - aya) ceremonies run nature/balance on the globe. Coincidence?

Having a genuine Huichol ceremony tomorrow night, doing so I will respect their ways.
The sample was granted to spread along with their concerns, they really ask our help.

I think the Huichol are right. I have long suspected that these entheogenic medicines play a larger ecosystemic role for Gaia..and I think that many indigenous peoples have long been the custodians of the land and held a more sacred part of our world together. I don't not want to see that part of our world die.

They really ask for help or at least full disclosure of what is happening:
http://frenteendefensade...kuta.org/wirikuta-en-bk/

"How to work with it, and for what purposes." Well said and I interpret this that one can decide this for themselves

That the nature forces lean on the ceremonies is too vague for me to understand. The other way around seems to have more sense imo and could explain why those ceremonies can be similar in separated cultures. What I do understand and I think most of the people here on this nice forum, is that nature has to be highly respected and of course also peyote has to be safe from tourists looking for a fast high or corporate fuck ups (like the mining story).

I wouldn't like to see the cultures vanish as we could learn from them and how they approach the world, but I really have something against superiority/exclusivity (and that's what I sensed in that article). But I think that's my bad.

I like the idea though that nature pivots on those ceremonies and if it's meant that people become more conscious about the importance of preservation of nature in a sense I agree on that view.

I also strongly believe in the instructions/lessons you can get from the peyote or other psychedelic substances and that those instructions come from a collective source of universal knowledge tailored for improving or giving you insight into yourself (the ego) and your surroundings. Actually I use peyote and trichos for personal advantage and I don't feel bad about it all. It helped me a lot with understanding my conscious behaviour.

Let's hope that the Huichol people can live their lives as they are used to including their rituals and ceremonies and that corporate influence gets a little more restricted especially when nature is involved.
If somehow peyote will go extinct in nature probably a joint venture of us Western gringos can bring them back in nature with the help of our collections

Thanks for the replies.

We can learn from all this.
I too think personal growth is not bad at all, but I guess it should not be the only thing.
Lets monitor a balance, one side "what do we get out of it" and other side " what did I put into it". Everybody represents some value at least, even the biggest newbie-noob. Did we not often forget to put our value into the ceremonie? To make our weight into the big field, on those special moments of ceremonies. Lets see them ceremonies as opportunities to become creators ourselves, aim for the diamond of your being, and share it into the ceremony, to give back. I think some bi-directional benefit will result.

Agreed. It's racist to assume Peyote "is not for Western people", but I think it's at least fair to prohibit Peyote tourism to protect both the endangered Peyote populations & the Huichol people that collect them for ceremonies. I allways see plenty of Peyotes for sale.
Pups & adults. So there's absolutely no need to snag them from their natural habitat.