Bumping this thread with some more data for the pool. The variance between people is indeed curious.

Using materials found in the pocket of a life-raft while floating in international waters, 100/100/50 of thh/rue crystals/dmt were mixed separately in OJ and drank 20 min apart producing a strong, enjoyable experience. 5 hours of rue effects with 3 hours of dmt effects within. 1 hour peak experience with intense, white light, 3rd eye open, CEVs consisting of moving geometric constructs laden with infinite multicultural symbolic iconography (matching just barely breakthrough smoked visuals). Followed by 2 hours of deep and meaningful cognitive exploration of self producing strong feelings of well being and contentedness. Unfortunately nausea resulting in vomiting occurred at first hour after harmala consumption. Subject had inadvertently fasted for 10 hours prior though and ate a veggie burrito immediately after drinking (could have been the waves on the ocean). A better management of diet, further purification of rue crystals, and reduction of rue crystals from 100 to 60mg may be the key. Subject felt that another 50mg of dmt could have been ingested on the tail end of the peak while rue effects were still being felt to extend the entire experience.

Subject will be sure to check pockets of life-rafts whenever lost at sea in international waters again in the future.

The Logos, are you planning to ever try pharmahuasca with pure THH or pure harmine? That's something quite different compared to using plain rue.

SWIM finds that pharmahuasca made with 200 mg of THH is superior to all the others he’s tried (even including authentic ayahuasca made with caapi and chacruna). There’s almost no “mind fuck” at all, and no sedation to it either. The trip is very clear and focused with lots of meaningful visionary content.

SWIM agrees with 69ron, he used ~130mg of pure harmaline, and it was uniquely different then using syrian rue tea.

made a crude rue extract, salted that but screwed up and rebased before filtering so no idea on purity.

Just wanted to see if things were in order so I was just keeping the experiment light.
Took 100mg of that dried extract and waited 35 mins. Took no more then 50mgs of spice (for a 210lb person).
Onset was about 50mins and lasted into the 5 hr mark. There was almost no CEV or OEV except some pattern overlay and duplication from the carpet and ceiling. The real work was being done to the emotions. Wave after wave of emotionality came over * and the body felt like it was on a high dose of LSD. Actually cried three separate times for no real reason whatsoever, not the good cry either. Not too much change in headset except the urge to just lay down and ride it out.

All in all it worked without a doubt but Ill blame the pointlessness of the emotional aspect down to the low dosage.
Pretty soon here we'll swing for the fences and see whats on the other side.

I would say that a possible problem is low MAOI dose... Normally people need 100-200 of pure extract, and you took 100 of a quite impure one, I imagine.. I think upping the harmalas to 300mg of crude extract (or cleaning it by repeating the process) should be tried before upping the dmt dose to make sure you got full MAO inhibition and is not wasting any spice

So to recap..

Between 100-200mg MAOI
Between 50-100mg DMT
Mixed in OJ and taken 15-30mins apart.

For standard effects.

I take it no more MAOI is needed from a practicality point of view as at this dose it is already doing it's job. What about threshold effects, what is the lowest amount one could take but still have the MAOI working fully. More/less DMT is needed for people but it all seems a bit subjective. Ideally I would assume anywhere from 150mg of DMT and up would be a relatively thorough dose. Fumarate takes effect quicker as it's absorbed easier, but apart from this what other advantages are there to taking a salt over freebase. Also mixing into orange juice seems to be the standard method but ron wrote he finds lemonade works best? I thought orange juice was used because of its acidity in reaction to the freebase MAOI and DMT.

What is the difference in ingesting close to clean DMT crystals as apposed to yellowish not cleaned ones. If both were taken in equal amounts on separate occasions would the subject feel more nausea, less potency etc etc? Seen the yellow crystal has more gunk and oil you would assume there would be less actual DMT in comparison to the same dose of clean crystal but I'm also under the impression that the oil's are just as active, when smoked anyway.

The same with Rue extract, does a cleaner product improve potency and lessen the chance of nausea?

I'm assuming that the weight of different people is why there is such a discrepancy in result but maybe the purity of both the DMT and the MAOI extract has something to do with it?

Personally, I think caapi is the only way to go if you are doing pharmahuasca..,this is the ayahuasca vine after all, and arguably the most important part of the brew. I've tried Syrian Rue a few times, and had enjoyable experiences, but they seemed very light, almost felt like a recreational buzz. I've had extract freebase and fumarate with Moclobemide as an MAOI, and they also seemed quite light, recreational experiences - nice by all means, but not very deep.

On the other hand I've hand I've had some very much deeper experiences boiling up 30g caapi (minimum...basically the more caapi, the better), drinking that and then taking a capsule of 250mg of very pure DMT freebase extract (from mimosa) 15/20 mins later...and this ALWAYS produces interesting results...and a nice clean purge early on, so it kind of feels like ayahuasca as well.

Just the way I've done it before...seems like a MUCH higher dose than most people on here are using which is interesting. However next time I won't bother with a capsule and drink it down mixed in some orange juice I think.

Sounds much better but I'll have to make do with Syrian Rue as Caapi isn't legal here. 250mg of pure DMT sounds like a fair dose, I can't wait to get into this Pharmawesome business.

SWIM has had a lot of problems with her pharmahuasca, but she's beginning to think it's about the dose, which she always neglects to increase despite a succession of failed launches

She usually goes with about 200mg of very crude rue extract and between 50mg and 70mg of DMT fumarate around twenty minutes afterward. However, she will invariably top up with a similar, usually equal, dose about thirty minutes later, but never gets anywhere. Well, I say never, she did have one strong experience but has no idea how she managed it. Further, she often gets a good twenty minutes of light OEVs and detailed CEVs, which then all but disappears.

Strange...

I experimented with Caapi Copy trying to get my DMT experience.. When it finally worked for both me and my friend who was trying it the next day, it worked really well. I had a whole 200 mg dose, but I didn't have that much left for him, so he took about 100 mg's of Caapi Copy, maybe less, and it was enough to fully activate his DMT dose.. I put a little THH in it too in case it wasn't enough..

If I buy Caapi Copy again I likely won't use the whole 200 mg containers for a dose.. I might try a few different doses to see the minimum necessary for activation.. but it's a good product.. no nausea and it makes the process easier.

lebmug. Yeah, I would take 300-400mg of your rue extract.

another thing that works GREAT for SWIM is to just take both the maoi's and the dmt at the same time...in hot water..and then eat some bread of cereal...SWIM finds he has the easiest time dosing and very powerful experiences ONLY when he takes them at the same time..

its like the maois confuse the MAO's and allow the dmt to slip through...the maois create like a buffer solution out of the hot water

My friend is grateful for your advice. She says that next time she'll try more rue extract, after all it can't hurt to take more rue whereas the DMT is scarce!

As for Jorkest's suggestion, she has't heard this before - she's always had the advice to take the MAOI before the DMT, but she says she'll give it a go. Thank you all

I discovered that i need a slightly larger dose of MAOI's than most people, for it to fully work. I don't know why that is, but it took me a few experiments to find this out. For those who never done any pharmahuasca, i think experimenting is the best way to find out what works for you. Syrian rue is not a good source of MAOI's. You better take caapi; it's much nicer.

swims been debating on trying this for a few weeks now, but without a mg scale i feel kinda sketchy. I been having a rough time smoking the spice due to asthma flare ups, so i figured why not try the oral route. Well the only maoi swim has is a bunch of rue seeds, being not the best maoi for the job should he give it a go anyway? Also the spice he has was from a stb tek, but he didnt recrystallize, is this ok to take orally? So should swim get his shit together,(new scale, new maoi, recrystallize) before attempting a journey? any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

Rue is fine, its cheap and works plenty well. Many report it is a little less forgiving than Caapi, but caapi is not necessary. Unrecrystalized spice is fine, you don't need to redo it unless you want to. The freebase is a little harder on the stomach as it is converted to a salt, so if you have fumerate that would be better to use orally.

I'm always a fan of a scale, always want to know what amount you are taking, and with oral dmt, the range of effective levels of experience vary widely. 89ron says he needs 25mg for a full blown experience, I need 250-300mg for a similar experience. Each person is different, and unless you want to take the chance of a white knuckled ride your first time, I'd suggest starting off smaller and working your way up, to find the right combination for you. It took me 4-5 times before I found the right dose for pharma, but once you know how you react, its all gravy from there.

I'd recommend it very much. I like it more than smoking, longer lasting, but not too long. Easier to remember, and oh so much of a good time!

Happy journeying!

thanks a lot Saidin, swim needs a scale bad, but he keeps buying more botanicals. time to get with the program. Swim knows what your saying, if it does take me a few times to get the does right, it would help knowing what the hell the dose is lol.

With rue 10x extract I would only use about 10mg, 20mg utmost. I would take the rue capsule first and then 10 mins later the DMT with only 100mg of DMT in it.

Sanman, you need 3-5 grams of ground rue seeds for the maoi to take hold. Swim tried this a few weeks ago and it worked like a charm.

5 grams is too much, imo. even 2 grams of rue is usually enough in inhibit mao.
anything over 3 grams is overkill, imo.