One thing I have had to do, that I consider essential to my long-term goal is letting go of all the ego-centered reasons that I wanted TK and replacing them with selfless reasons.

I have actually done a pretty thorough overhaul of my personality.

I bring this up because you mentioned earlier that your previous attempts hadn't been sincere. I recommend that you not view that as something static. There is no aspect of your personality that cannot be changed. In fact, your mind is constantly in flux and is really a bad place to focus your sense of identity. It could be said that every day when you fall asleep you "die" and are reborn, new and slightly different every morning. That's a big part of why so many people teach that ego is illusion.

The body is also continually in flux. At no 2 moments in your life is your biochemical make-up exactly the same. Again, it's a bad idea to over-identify with your body.

Once you accept that you are not your thoughts, that patterns of thought and feeling have very little to do with you, they become much easier to modify into more constructive and beneficial patterns of thought and feeling. This is what I believe to be "ego death." It's not really a thing to be afraid of. Fear is just clinging to an illusion.

I think enlightenment is largely shifting your sense of identity to The Eternal Light within. I think "enlightenment" is when your sense of identity merges with The Creator, The Source, God and you recognize that way down deep that who you are, who you have always been, and that that's who everyone is (whether they realize it or not), and then integrate that reality into your day to day life.

And, since in a very real way God is Love, you become the living embodiment of Divine Love; or, perhaps recognize that's what you have always been and only imagined that you were your body or mind.

Ultimately, I think this transition in self perception is essential to my goal of mastering TK.

But, I find myself wondering why you (or anybody really) wouldn't want that? Do you perhaps have a different mental picture of what enlightenment is? What exactly did you mean by "not sincere"?

Assuming that the enlightened mind is at all "immersed in silence" is about as absurd as thinking that death is an endless darkness and emptiness that must be endured. There is no burden and no sacrifice of will, but rather a relief from burden and the primacy of will. The only profound special source (other than what imaginary constructs one chooses to create and entertain) is the world around us and our relation to it. The idea that the ego must "die" is a myth spread by people who choose seek endlessly rather than look the truth in the face. The ego must be understood and cooperated with, and taught to cooperate with the rest of the world. It is nothing more than a necessary tool with the potential to cause harm, like any part of ourselves.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure "ego death" is just recognizing that ego is itself an illusion because mind and body are continually changing. Accepting this truth makes it a whole heck of a lot easier to break bad habits and instill good ones. It makes you more flexible and adaptable.

It's an important step when you no longer identify with your own emotions. No more "I am angry" and more "I am experiencing anger" by detaching you don't get swept up in it and can just let it fade without giving into it.

It's always important that we define our terms carefully to prevent misunderstandings. For most people the most useful definition of enlightenment is growing in love and learning to live a balanced, harmonious life. If you grow in love you will have greater peace and joy in your life. With this definition enlightenment is a lot like health. You do a lot of things to maintain health, but there's not "Aha. I have achieved health."

So, we seek enlightenment the same way we seek strength, health, knowledge or any other thing.

Hopefully nothing too abstract there

And I think you've confirmed the point I was making, which is that you don't understand what enlightenment actually is well enough and so shy away from what you imagine it to be.

What I was saying is that a highly enlightened person is the living embodiment of divine love. Now, as I grow in love and light my priorities may well shift; but, I seek TK for loving reasons so the power of divine love may well assist me. At least that's what the voices in my head tell me and I'm pretty sure that the voices are my own God Self and guardian angels, so I tend to trust them.

I get it man. And no, I'm not going to push you. There's no upside for either of us.

And I don't blame you for wanting to see TK before you believe. I wouldn't trust some random guy I just started talking to on the internet either.

If you'd like I'll try and explain my picture of enlightenment a little better and why it's a desirable thing; but, it has you be your choice. If I try to shove my view of the world down your throat it's ego, which is what I'm working pretty hard to beat.

Now, since you're here on this forum, I think it's safe to assume that if nothing else you're curious about other people's systems of belief and how they view the world; so, I'm going to assume a "yes" unless you say otherwise.

***For me personally I know for my state of mind it would cause me to be delusional. And full of anxiety. ***

Enlightenment is, among other things, freedom from illusion and delusion. Now, that said, some of the truths that get revealed can be a bit difficult to integrate. For example, I have no idea how much of what I believe to be true is complete and utter BS. No one does.

The difficulty doesn't really come from the truth itself, it comes from the ego fighting the truth. The ego gets off on feeling superior; but, this feeling of superiority gets in the way of truth and wisdom. Let's use me as an example. If TK is not real and I am in reality deluded, then my best course of action is to walk away and abandon my quest.

If I was more in the thrall of ego, I would have gotten upset at the idea that TK is impossible. I wouldn't be able to take criticism and that you really were coming from a place of sincere concern would have been irrelevant. Ego keeps us from being objective and thinking things through. Ego puts emotion above rationality, above truth and wisdom, and this is just a bad idea. Ego would have said "Oh no! Someone doesn't respect me!" and started freaking out; where the truth is that you being honest and sincere actually is more respectful, even if you don't agree.

So, in this case, freedom from ego means that I don't buy into the delusion that I need people to believe me. If what I'm doing is based on truth, you're agreement is irrelevant. The truth is what it is regardless of who believes it.

I gain nothing by fighting the truth. People only gain suffering when they fight reality. That is a good chunk of the peace of enlightenment, no longer fighting to cling to your worldview when you come across evidence that you're wrong. No longer resisting change when you need to adapt to a new situation.

When you seek enlightenment what you give up is ego; which is a burden that brings only suffering into your life. Ego doesn't want you to believe that it's a burden, but it is. Ego is a liar and not to be trusted.

Now, regardless of whether TK is real or not, the thing in your mind that tells you "Don't make me believe. I can't handle that." is ego. If it turns out that TK is real all you lose is an old perception of reality. All it means is that you see more truth than that you have seen before. The lie that ego is telling you is that it's a big deal. It's not.

The lie is that you can't handle it. You can.

So what if I master TK? How much does that impact you? How much does that affect your life? What do you lose if it is true?

Let's pick a more "mundane" situation. For example, a cheating girlfriend. Ego may say "I can't handle being alone. I don't want to know." But, again, this is a lie. I don't care who you are, it is a figment of the imagination that you need another person to validate you. This is not love, not of them and not of yourself. It is better to be alone than with someone who doesn't really love you. If you listen to ego in this situation you will suffer for it. If you listen to ego you will be fighting the truth the whole time instead of dealing with the bad situation. And, by clinging to the cheating girlfriend, you deprive yourself of the freedom to find a new, more loving companion.

Enlightenment is letting go of all the anxiety that is holding you back. This is why I say that you're anxiety is based a false picture of enlightenment. Anxiety isn't part of enlightenment, anxiety is ego resisting enlightenment. Anxiety is what you are overcoming.

Enlightenment is calm and peaceful and able to act.

Truthfully, I suspect that you're underestimating how enlightened you already are.

I'm busting up laughing right now.

***My ego does stop me walking out into a big busy road***

The loss of fear that comes with enlightenment does not mean you become careless. Just because I tend to self-identify with my soul doesn't mean I don't value my body. My body is a valuable tool that allows me to interact with the world. I love the world and I love my body. I just don't see any reason to get freaked out by the fact that that it's fragile, mortal and will eventually die.

In fact, the more I identify with my soul, the more I am able to love and appreciate my body. I no longer resent the weakness of my body because I don't view myself as mortal.

It'd be bloody inconvenient to lose my body and I will not deliberately do anything to endanger it. It'd be really tough on my wife and little boy if nothing else.

One of the illusions that you end up giving up as part of enlightenment is that you need fear to protect you. Do stress and worry actually do a thing to improve your life? They're good at convincing people that they're needed; but, worrying about a thing has never prevented it.

Fear and worry cut people off from the joy of living.

Fear is an emotion. My rational mind does a perfectly fine job of keeping my body safe without fear getting involved.

***I'm not to keen on separating my ego from my sense of self and giving it a battering***

Ego and sense of self are synonymous.

And I'm not suggesting that anyone should give up their sense of self. Maybe loosen their grip on it a little, but not give it up completely. I view myself as part of the universe and not separate from it; but, that's just reality. If I didn't continually get food, water and air my body would die. I am part of nature, not apart from it. Everyone is whether they choose to acknowledge the Oneness of all things or not.

I am also suggesting that it's wise to self identify with your soul instead of your body or your mind. There's a lot of peace that comes with that.

Also, I believe that the fundamental energy of the universe that all matter arises from is love. So, I will sometimes shift my sense of self to that level and recognize that I am love. E=MC2. If E=Love then all matter is composed of love. If all matter is love, then I am composed of love. I am the living embodiment of love and light; and you are too. Everyone is.

It's a really awesome feeling if you can accept and believe that. And, with practice you can tune into that feeling any time. You learn to just relax and enjoy the sensation that comes with the deep intuitive knowledge that you are love.

That is enlightenment.

I'm not sure whether my description is poor or whether you are still holding on to ideas that you've seen elsewhere.

As far as I'm concerned (which is not always the consensus opinion) emotional maturity and enlightenment are often synonymous. (That said, I tend to use enlightenment in several related ways, which is probably part of the confusion.) If I'm talking an end of suffering I mostly mean "Get over it, things are what they are." I mean "Why worry about things that you can't control?"

A good example is our discussion right here, I'm not emotionally invested in convincing you one way or another. I actually just enjoy the debate and care very little about the outcome. Because I don't care about the outcome (which involves your will and is therefore something I cannot control) I am at peace regardless and just able to enjoy the discussion.



You have made it clear that you have no interest in pursuing enlightenment at the moment and I respect that. I'm not going to try and push you. I don't think it would do any good even if I did, because it's something you have to be sincere about and really care about.

But, I promise you that there are at least aspects of it that are real and of immense value to people. As I go deeper and connect to my soul, as I have out of body experiences and integrate past life memories, I no longer fear death the way that I used to. I used to get really depressed every time I left for work because of the reality that any day could be the last time I see my wife. I don't know that I won't die in an accident and I don't know that she won't either. I'm not good at pretending things away.

It's not super complex when I say that we are all a part of the world, that we are all a part of society and that things break down when people are too selfish. When people focus their time and energy on themselves and ignore their responsibility to the world it creates imbalances. Everyone suffers when people choose selfishness.

You're right that enlightenment carries with it a sense of personal responsibility to make the world a better place; but, it also brings the humility to know that you can't fix everything on your own and the wisdom not to beat yourself up over the fact that you can't always solve everybody's problems.

And I say this from personal experience, not from dogma. My time meditating has made me a better, more mature, more kind, compassionate and loving individual; and, it has helped me to find peace in situations that I used to find intolerable.

I have learned that there is no peace to be found in running away from Truth and running away from responsibility. The problems continue to exist and often get worse. I am so much happier since I quit the "somebody should do something about that" BS and just got up and started doing things myself.

I can't tell you how glad I am that you figured that out on your own and I didn't have to say it.

Here's how I look at things and why I'm still talking: I can't tell you what to do with your life and won't try; but, since you have admitted ignorance as to what enlightenment is I'm going to do my best to help you make an informed decision. I'll share my thoughts and feelings and personal experiences so that you can make a choice to pursue it or not with eyes wide open. Also, it helps me to deal with my own fear and doubt to go over my reasons again. By sharing my reasoning with you I re-affirm my own commitment and it helps me to go forward.

I totally get where you're coming from. Like I said when I started the thread, one of the biggest issues that any of us have to deal with is our own fear getting in our way. Is it real or am I going crazy? The thing is that the part of the mind that experiences fear isn't really trying to get in the way, it's trying to protect you; which can make it one heck of an obstacle. Just remember that the fear parts of the brain are ancient, animalistic and not terribly wise. They do their best, but they're not always the best at handling the intricacies of modern life. They are designed to jump to conclusions and make snap decisions, which is important in the wild, it can literally save your life in dealing with a predator; but, they often get in the way of higher judgment and rational thought.

Psychological defense mechanisms, particularly denial, are a pain in the butt to deal with. The ability people have to lie to themselves and run away from what they know deep down to be true is an obstacle all of us have to deal with. Maybe when your hear someone say "transcending ego" think "overcoming their own psychological defense mechanisms." It's a pretty good definition.

Let me give a more "normal" example of what I mean. Say someone is a talented musician and wants to try and go pro. There are an awful lot of people competing for relatively few jobs. It can be a really hard path to follow and there is literally no one who isn't going to run into failure of some kind or another and wonder if they should just give up. Holding on to a dream in the face of reason (or what seems to be reason anyway) is not an easy thing to do.

Part of the answer is that reason isn't always truth. One failure, or even a hundred failures, do not mean that you should give up. You can fail 100 times and succeed on the next. Just because things aren't easy doesn't mean that they're impossible.

Now, if nothing else, I promise that meditation can help with that kind of thing. You can train yourself to effectively deal with negative emotions. You can train yourself to focus on your goal and put the other thoughts and feelings out of your head.

Also, it's worth mentioning here that meditation is a lot like exercise in that the benefits are cumulative and that the sooner you start the farther you will go.

From what you've said I really would recommend that you think of meditation just like exercise, at least for the moment. Let go of all your thoughts and feelings about pursuing enlightenment. If there is such a thing as enlightenment, that's great; but there is no need to chase it. It's actually counterproductive to chase it. It's best to just focus on personal growth and development, the progressive insights and realizations that meditation brings. It's about growing in love and wisdom. It's learning to love life regardless and not getting hung up on the things that you want and cannot have. It's about cultivating a more positive attitude and finding the joy that comes along with it.

lots of psychic talk in this thread, and the link in the OP

are psychic phenomena real or illusory?