I think, in the case of DMT, the laws on it can promote ignorance to the general populace and result in kneeejerk reactions. IE, DMT is a drug and drugs are bad! Not to mention that it will appeal to some folk for the sole reason that it is illegal.



I agree!

Edit, jeez Anrchy youv"e just added a load of extra words to your previous post. Ive gotta go out and i don"t have time to reply or edit!!!! (but on the whole i agree!)

Yes drugs being legal does promote more ignorance for sure. A lot of times it is illegal due to ignorance. That's why I say I don't think it should be illegal, but since it is I don't think it should just be legalized until we can educate those that are in the "not know".

Edit: hehe ya I tend to post a thread then think "oh!! I forgot this!". This is a fun thread.

Edit #2: just thought of something. By adding different tiers to laws, I would think that would encourage more people to try an be responsible in order to be able to participate in the upper tier activities. So say to be allowed to procure DMT and use it you have to show your responsible with using pot first. Have used it for whatever length of time then taken educational classes on psychedelics.

So then of course this rule would be broken, but with the added security of getting the license to legally use, it would be worth taking the classes to those that normally wouldn't bother.

How about a law that reflects the policy here at the Nexus: you can legally possess or use DMT, but cannot buy or sell it. That means you'd have to do some research- learn to extract (MHRB would need to be legalized of course) or fall in with people who have a respectful relationship with the spice and can share it the right way.

The point is to slow you down so that any random person can't just buy a changa spliff at the corner store, get in their car and light the thing up on the highway, or some equally ignorant act. Make access a thing that still takes a little work, to discourage casual unresearched experimentation.

i think we should have stricter drug laws (to include all nutraceuticals and herbal supplements), and a more profitable prison industry..

also laughter and dancing should be a criminal offence as well (no need to laugh or dance when you can be productive).

just my 2 cents, but with any luck (and no soul whatsoever), i can turn those cents into a fortune (because money is the goal of life).

It has suddenly dawned on me that the "P.C." in "PC Movement" does NOT stand for politically correct..

I think I may have uncovered a conspiracy right here on this site..

All hail our newly uncovered overlord, Parshvik Chintan

Great discussion. Good, solid points on both sides of this argument.




Let's look at the people that are currently deemed sane & responsible enough by
law & policies of our present day societies to wield powerfull fire arms:
Police Officers, Soldiers, DEA officers & Navy Seals. Have these people never used
their fire arms wrecklessly?

Remember the CIA being deemed "responsible enough folks" to expiriment with psycho-active drugs by the US government? I remember reading many accounts of the CIA testing LSD, BZ(3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate), Scopolamine & Atropine on unknowing victims: Mainly prisoners & Soldiers. Doesn't send like a very responsible & benign use of psychoactive drugs to me.




My point with these examples is:
I agree that not everyone should be legally allowed to use psychoactive drugs. It's just
that the "rules" that decide who are responsible & benign enough to use them (and who not)
are currently wrong and should be mindfully rewritten.

Now predatorious organisations like the CIA are given permission to use psychoactives in gnarly, harmfull experiments like I just mentioned. In hopes of attaining zombification drugs with which to get falsely accused "state enemies" to give false "confessions" of their "crimes" in the good ol' Show Trials that police states likes to orchestrate.
They might decide to use such delirant drugs on Bradley Manning to get him to give a false confession of his "treason".

Other harmfull use of drugs can be by manipulative psychopaths like Charles Manson &
Shoko Asahara should obviously also fall into this cathegory of outlawed psychoactive drug-use. And off course the common Meth dealers fall into this cathegory too; Making money by helping irresponsible, psychologically troubled people destroy themselves. Violent, bloodthursty Maffia organisations that ruin societies the world over, also use
drug-dealing to increase their wealth & power.

These nefarious uses of Psychoactive drugs should be strictly outlawed. off course.
And visciously & mercylessly persecuted. No need to explain why to any sane human being.



I've been thinking about a way to decide who's responsible & benign enough to be allowed
use of psychoactive drugs legally, but without total prohibition like we have now.

Perhaps a school for the responsible & benign use of Psychoactive drugs could do just that.
A school where people can be tested and educated in psychactive drug-use. I can imagine
this study would include alot of theory with some practical lessons in between.
Classes in Harm reduction; Knowing the Risks(of each drug), Responsible use of Psychedelic drugs(Purity of intent, Making safety a priority, set & setting..etc) and off course the fine art of Psychedelic botany(& mycology).

The first period of the study could include most tests, from which to determine wether people are resonsible & benign enough to be trusted with psychoactive drugs. If it turns out they are psychopathic, Psychologically so unstable and/or confused that psychoactive drug-use is likely to trigger harmfull behaviours(to others & to themselves) such as severe addiction, aggression depression & psychosis or something else that indicates that entrusting them with Psychoactive drugs could lead to serious harm, then these particular people could be denied further knowledge(of ethnobotany, extractions & psychoactive preparations) and will not be granted the certificate that allows one access to Psychedelic plants & compounds.


If people fail these tests, they may return after a number of years to try again.
People can change with time. They should be allowed to prove that.

Might such a Psychoactive education system work?

I agree that DMT should be legalized...someday.

But right now I am not unhappy with the state of affairs we have now.
Right now if you want to use DMT you have to go seriously out of your way to
obtain the information, raw materials, skill, and tools to extract it.
You have to be willing to do this in a quiet, careful, clandestine manner.
In other words you have to REALLY want it. So in that way DMT is positioned
like the Zen Master. To get the benefit you have to keep coming back despite the
obstacles.

IMHO that is exactly how DMT should be positioned. What are the odds that
a governmental system could come up with a "screening" system for would be
psychonauts that works anywhere near as well as the system we have operating
right now?

No, no one should go to prison for using DMT. But when I read the arrest reports for
tryptamine busts, people are not going to prison for DMT. They are going to prison for
stupidity.

This is good. I think you would make a good drug tzar Guyomech.



What? Sort of like a Hogwarts for tripheads? Not for me. The idea of someone else making a call on my purity of intent and being tested before i am allowed to do psyches gives me the willies. It is a personal thing and i do not want too many outside influences colouring what i decide to make of the experience. I think that we learn a lot about life in general by the mistakes that we make. In the case of harmful psychopaths,they are probably going to cause mayhem with whatever they get their hands on, be it psyches, guns or kitchen cutlery.



I have known quite a few people who have been busted over the years and, more often than not, the arrest reports bare little resemblance to what really went down.

Just to clarify what I originally meant to imply in my original post...


It is my firm belief that for DMT to be witnessed by the majority of the public, humanity must be at a level of maturity where anarchy can act as the prevailing system of social order. This in and of itself implies a number of different things. I won't go into the prerequisites for anarchism here because that's an entirely different topic worthy of a few different threads. That being said, I think it's safe to say that any system of hierarchical control (which inherently derives its power from the psychological subservience of the masses), would be entirely compromised in the face of a public who has looked behind the curtains of reality. If this public is not immediately capable of embracing an anarchic paradigm incredibly rapidly (that means shifting means of food/energy production, reincorporating the millions of convicts in the penal system, and fundamentally revamping almost all of the existing systems of social inter-relations), then we could be facing a potentially daunting scenario.

As has been previously mentioned in this thread, the current system compels anyone who is interested in experiencing DMT to go through the trouble of learning the extraction technique for themselves and on the way to trying it, attain some level of maturity regarding the molecule and the phenomenological experience that correspond to it. This inherently dampens the rate at which DMT can be experienced by the masses. Because of this, it provides those that have experienced it the chance to come back to the "real world" the same way in which they left it. As discomforting as this might be, it gives them the opportunity to reintegrate what they understood into their "normal" lives and in a sense provides a support net for people to fall back on. As much as their world-views might be shattered, they can depend on the rest of the world to be functioning just as they left it, rather than in a drastic state of unprecedented change. It's hard enough for an individual to reintegrate a breakthrough dose of DMT, nevermind an entire civilization. Because this rate of new experiences with DMT is kept artificially low (due to its legal standing), you essentially have a grace period for a small but significant section of society to come to terms with what they see and to act as a generation of experience to guide the forthcoming masses in their contact with this strange and beautiful chemical. Sometimes drastic and all-encompassing change isn't the best route towards happiness or progress. Sometimes it can lead to more problems than it solves. It's our responsibility to learn as much as we can in order to successfully guide the upcoming generations in their experiences, rather than working to unleash a torrential flood of indeterminate circumstances on the world.

Here's an interesting quote from a recent Time article about psilocybin that may apply.

Quote - This time around, caution may be paying off. Dr. Jerome Jaffe, America’s first drug czar, who was not involved with the research, said in a statement, “The Hopkins psilocybin studies clearly demonstrate that this route to the mystical is not to be walked alone. But they have also demonstrated significant and lasting benefits. That raises two questions: could psilocybin-occasioned experiences prove therapeutically useful, for example in dealing with the psychological distress experienced by some terminal patients?

“And should properly-informed citizens, not in distress, be allowed to receive psilocybin for its possible spiritual benefits, as we now allow them to pursue other possibly risky activities such as cosmetic surgery and mountain-climbing?”

http://healthland.time.c...ogical-health-long-term/



Given current research it may not be out of the question that at some point soon DMT and other psychoactives are taken off of Schedule 1 status, since most hallucinogens are non-addictive and actually do have medical benefits; which is contrary to the definition of a Schedule 1 drug.

I've been thinking quite a lot the last several days as to setting up a petition at www.whitehouse.gov about making some kind of legal path for spiritually minded individuals and groups to use psychoactive without fear of legal response. I could easily see a "safe use" class and license system, much like with handguns, as a good way to manage things.

If a petition gets 100,000 signatures in 30 days the president must make some kind of formal response. It's possible that if there was a push from the membership of this site actively promoting the petition that we could get 100,000 signatures and maybe get changes made to the law.

Though many would disagree with me, and do, I think that every adult human being should undergo at least one powerfully psychedelic experience in his or her lifetime, good or bad, both are beneficial. Unconsciousnesses need to be released for compassion and understanding.

I have often said in the past that psychedelics are only extremely beneficial for a very small percent of people, like 1%, and that still may be true, though I'm sure the figure is higher than that, but everyone should still have at least 1 experience to my mind.

Peace

That doesn"t make sense to me. I am ok with a bit of tough love but i cannot see the point of having an experience if there is no benefit.