hey guys it's been a few years... last time i was cooking i spent about six months trying different 5me0 extractions with absolutely no success.... and it did not seem as if I was alone.. lots of trying.. no luck.

Have things changed or am i going to have to give in and finally go the route of the frog?

i don't see why any other alkaloid extraction wouldn't work.

the trick is isolating 5-meo from the other actives, afaik.

...and to find an easily accessible plant that is consistent on having 5meo to begin with. If we had the latter it would only be a matter of time to develop teks and separation methods.

what about desmodium ? doesnt that have 5meo ?

i assumed if he was looking for extraction methods, he had a plant in mind.

..it's interesting that 5meo is not too common in the plant world..

a while back a mexican guy showed me some purified desert toad exudate (no harm was done to the toad)
..that's the only naturally occurring pure 5meo i've ever seen..
(has turned up with dmt in a small number of acacias)

Would it be possible for a kitchen chemist to chemically convert NN,DMT into 5-MeO-DMT?
Or would that require hard/risky to obtain chemicals & significant chemistry knowledge & skill?

ASAIK no plants contain significant amounts of 5-MeO-DMT.

Nen; On average, how much percent of Sonoran Desert Toad venom is 5-MeO-DMT?
And how difficult would it be to isolate the 5-MeO-DMT from the dried venom?




How was the venom collected? I've heard of quite brutal ways of stressing the toad
& collecting it's venom that involved strapping down its arms & legs,
but I can imagine there must be gentler, kinder ways of collecting it's venom.
I know very little of this toad. Does the venom squirt? Or does the toad just cover
his back skin with venom to become poisonous to the touch?

I have long considered making a nice terrarrium and buying a Sonoran Desert toad,
but I'm not going to do it unless I can figure out a kinder way of harvesting their
delightfull venom. Harvesting venom from toad glands may not be ideal, but sofar toad
venom seems the only worthwhile 5-MeO-DMT source out there.

..the venom was collected by 'milking' the toad (i.e gently pressing it's sides while sitting it on a windscreen) before letting it go..it can also contain bufotenine, but in the example i was shown apparently not..

5meo plant sources [EDIT: see few posts on re Phalaris, good source]
..one australian acacia (A. excelsa, see index Acacia info thread) was reported recently in unpublished research to contain mainly 5meo in reasonable amounts, but this hasn't been followed up to my knowledge..it's fairly common but obviously not accessible for those in other parts of the world..

also, the often asked about Acacia auriculiformis and Acacia farnensiana were observed by Trout and J. Appleseed to contain 5meo by TLC (not extraction) so how much is in there and how variable is not known..both these species are fairly common in a number of regions in the world..
.

There are many plants listed to contain 5-MEO-DMT in the literature. I suspect it should not be very different from extracting DMT or any other alkaloid.

As far as accessible known sources, TLC analysis seems to verify that Turkey Red variety of Phalaris arundinacea contains 5-MEO-DMT as is listed in the literature; however P. arundinacea has a rather low alkaloid content so you need a good amount of biomass for any reasonable sized yield.

Dont Yopo seeds contain 5-MeO-DMT? Or is that mainly bufotinine?

I have heard these two names used interchangably as well, but I assume that is wrong and that there is a difference between the two molecules? If so, what is the difference?

I have a feeling that there is tons of grasses that contain 5meoDMT..even barley grass and wheat grass contain it I think. I don't think we have even explored 1/10th of the tryptamine containing grasses out there. Most people only know about phalaris..what about the many many digitaria species? Sanguinalis for instance has 5meoDMT and that's the only one I know of that was tested. There could be tons of species loaded with it and similar tryptamines..

I would really really really love to get the chance to work with toad venom. Someday I will probly just drive down to the Sonoran desert and learn about toading and do it right. I cant really justify keeping toads as I don't have the money etc to dedicate the very large living space I feel they would deserve. I would totally milk wild toads in the desert though.

Ideally, I would be well off with the resources to dedicate a whole large greenhouse to a desert permaculture setup with cacti and ponds etc and then rescue a few toads at petshops etc from a life lived in a tiny little 2x2 glass box..throw in a few desert acacias too and some harmel and have an awesome little ecosystem.

bufotenine and 5meoDMT are definatly not the same. For as much as you hear people claiming to dislike 5meoDMT, far more people IMO are going to dislike bufotenine. They are like complete opposites on the tryptamine scale..bufotneine is largely just visuals/visions lacking any relevant mental effects and tons of nausea and toxic feeling constriction. It is not very useful for doing healing or therapeutic work IMO. 5meoDMT is described as much less visual than DMT but extremely mentally psychedelic. WIth 5meoDMT you get ego death I guess( I never tried it)..but with bufotenine(which I have worked with extensively) I cant ever imagine having true ego death..even the really high breakthrough style doses you just have really detailed visions but the body load feels so toxic and there is none of that divine psychological/spiritual connection to the visions like I experience with DMT,psilocybin etc...you just feel sort of like you have sleep deprivation like your all fuzzy mentally.

I DID have 3 amazingly fantasmagoric experiences on snuff made from Yopo(A.Peregrina) seeds.
Not sure if I can say it's got healing potential or not: I only did it 3 times, but each time was amazingly visionairy, allowing me to see many humanoid spirits/beings all around me. Children running around me playing, a man on a piano stool in white tuxido pants, a blond european woman wearing her hair in a long braided tail seemingly from the past(1500 -1800)..etc The difference was that I saw these spirits in the Physical world, as if Hyperspace overlapped with this physical reality to produce a hybrid reality.

The last of my 3 Yopo sessions ended in a breakthrough into a forrest like place(in hyperspace I suppose) with some sort of festivity going on. I first entered a tunnel that made a Y-split: One way was safely back to physical reality & the other way was straight down the rabbit whole. You know: a blue pill, red pill moment. Needless to say I chose the equivalent of "red pill" in that scenario. I broke through into a non-physical realm. Seemingly a festival in an open spot in the forest.
Lots of stands and tents and people wearing party hats who are desperately trying to grasp my attention as I entered their scene. When I did give them my focussed attention they cheered and got me to dance with them.



Sounds like Yopo defenitely has potential to heal, but I can't say wether that is attributable to Yopo's 5-MeO-DMT content, it's NN,DMT content, it's Bufotenin content or
the combination of the 3. Yopo is known to contain all 3; Mostly Bufo, but also 5-MeO in lesser amounts and NN,DMT in trace amounts. I read that Yopo seeds' Bufotenin content can
be as high as 12% so most effects are likely attributable to Bufotenin. Perhaps there is something altered about Bufotnin when the pulverised Yopo is mixed with water & edible lime.


But Sonoran Dessert toad venom containing 15% 5-MeO-DMT? Well FOOOOK me, that's a high percentage! Defenitely sounds worthwhile, especially when you know how much more potent 5-MeO-DMT is than NN,DMT. An active dose of 5-MeO-DMT is...what... 10 miligrams? I thought I remember reading that 5-MeO is more potent than NN, though I'm not sure.

Well anyways, Bufo Alvarius toads seem the way to go. The gentle milking you described seems fine to the toad. I'm guessing the toad can't exude alot of venom before it's glands are empty and need to refill, so it'll be a matter of patience and often milking.

Is the biosynthetic pathway by which Bufo toads metabolise nutrients in their diet into the 5-MeO-DMT in their Venom known? If so I guess you could optimise our toad's diet for it to produce Venom with significantly higher percentages of 5-MeO-DMT. Fascinating toad.

jamie wrote:
..oh yeah, i forgot!! where's my memory at! silly me
quite a few strains of Phalaris brachystachys have good amounts of jsut 5meo..

also, the 'Turkey Red' strain of Phalaris arundinacea (available commercially) is mainly 5meo

I should defenitely grow some of that Turkey Red strain if I can find seeds,
but I bet it can't beat the Bufo Toad venom's 15% of 5-MeO-DMT content.

Why is hardily anyone enthusiastic about Bufo Alvarius toads?
15% is the highest Psychedelic Tryptamine content of any organic material AFAIK.
Is it difficult/expensive to isolate 5-MeO-DMT from the dried venom?

SKA wrote:
..it's more that the toad is only found in the sonoran desert and not so easy to find..i'm not sure if people are breeding them..
the 5meo content is high enough that the dried venom from the glands can be smoked directly, though obviously doing some kind of A/B extraction will make it purer/stronger..

grass is potentially a lot easier to access..
from the Phalaris=The Way Of The Future thread p12


also, from that thread is Jim DeKorne's 5meo from Turkey Red info..p9 here

that's a great thread, btw, that Phalaris thread..
glad my 5meo memory is back!

Thank you for clearing that up Jamie.

I am very interested in the Bufo Alvarius toads as well, have been for a while now. Whenever I have the space I plan on trying to build a decent sized terrarium for one, and going out to try to find one. I am sure not many pet stores carry these toads, but I am sure if I were to go into the nearby city and look in exotic pet shops, I could probably find one that has some.

Upon looking up the difference between 5meo and Bufotenin, I have to agree that the later sounds unpleasant. 5meo sounds the way to go, apart from normal DMT. A good mix of 5MeO and DMT would be very worth while to experience. If I can get a toad one day, I shall milk it, A/B the venom, and add this extract to a DMT extract at a 1:1.5 or 1:2 ratio, since the one is more potent.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

I was under the impression that the 'Turkey red' strain can only be successfully grown from cuttings to preserve the genetics and that seeds are likely to mutate and thus potentially scew the alkaloid concentration.
Just my 2c worth.

5-MeO-DMT sources

There's plenty of areas to explore there..

I personally have not found a reliable natural source of 5-MeO-DMT, but hope we can collectively get there soon

So far i know, the only way people who knows how to milk Bufo alvarius follow to "isolate" 5-MEO-DMT from the venom is to let it dry in a piece of glass, so there's no really a secret, complicated way to do it. A desert elf friend of mine has bufos kicking on the back door from july to september, every year. He has even seen people who kick them out of their house with a broom hahaha.