I know this has been asked many times, but In your solid opinion What is more intense, blast off on salvia or freebase DMT? keep in mind i would say salvia be around 40x, which is what i have done, and the experiences have been reaaalll intense.


Edit: i also have heard that the come up of dmt is much like salvia, however the come up on salvia is very...creepy crawly to me. I feel like as soon as i take a hit of 40x salvia that i get pushed back, everything becomes confusing, i dont know where i am, who i am, who the people around me are, if im real, if anything is real, and i become VERY VERY confused. It definitely feels awkward and often very unpleasant.

Hmm. Tuff one as always. I guess it depends on what shocks you more, as the entry on either is very intense, but also very different, IMO.
If I compared my work with 50X Salvia and Freebase DMT, I would say that DMT is more intense for beginners..
BUT..

After a good amount of use with both, I feel like Salvia is harder to deal with for me than DMT.. >
Again, I think it really depends on what shocks you.

Now that I've done a fair share of DMT, I feel like the entry and experience in general are much less shocking for me than they used to be, whereas Salvia is still scary as all hell!! haha..
For me it's the vertigo effect of salvia and how disorienting the experience can be.

I find it much more difficult to create a linear recollection of my experience after a good 50X salvia blast off than I do, even a large DMT dose.

- This being said, I seem to be blessed in the DMT hyperspace world, as I always seem to meet incredible entities who help me along, and go to fairly coherent places. This can not be said about salvia. There is always a dark undertone, and an overwhelming sense of confusion that I can't shake. I have had some baffling experiences on Salvia, but never as fulfilling as DMT.
Hope that helps

EDIT: Yea your explanation of it is similar to mine.. To me, DMT is just as intense, but also very different. Can't be emphasized enough.. I don't get a creepy feeling on DMT. Though the feeling is very similar.. I've even had the same prickly skin feeling with DMT, but it is gone so fast and then you are still.. Salvia doesn't inspire stillness in me.. I want to get up and get the hell out of there!! haha..

Thanks for the reply!

It makes me feel better about doing dmt, because salvia scares me. I absolutely agree with the dark undertone feeling, and with the stillness part, my first time smoking salvia I smoked more than I thought I needed, and felt as though I could do anything, I felt like I needed to run around, so I ran through the yard and tried to do a front handspring! (Failed, hahaha) it seems salvia has more of a dark undertone to it, ALTHOUGH I have seen some incredible (and just downright gut busting hilarious) things on it!

IMHO DMT is FAR more intense than salvia.

Despite the structural similarities between DMT and other common tryptamine psychedelics, DMT is way more intense and different.

Salvia, despite being structurally unrelated to other psychedelics seems pretty familiar and similar in effect to me.


FYI, besides being stupid and dangerous to run around on psychedelics, it also wastes the experience. I agree for the most part with Terrence McKenna's advice that psychedelics should be done in large doses and experienced in darkness, silence, and stillness. Nothing wrong with some music and eyecandy, but moving around instead of staying in a safe place is a pretty good indicator that someone isn't mature or experienced enough to be doing psychedelics.

Over the past couple weeks, I've been seeing more and more people saying how they think the come up is like salvia. For me it is not. They are quite distinct from start to finish. I think when taken in excess, salvia is more intense. I also find it less "useful" and more confusing. I flip back and forth in my head which is more intense I suppose though. "Intensity" is such a vague term. They are both quite intense in rather particular ways.

I find the come-ups completely dissimilar. On the most fundamental level, DMT takes you up and out, while salvia drags me down and under.

DMT also has, for me at least, the powerful serotonergic sense that 'everything is going to be alright.' Once I get past the initial rush of fear, everything is beautiful, fascinating and awe-inspiring.

Salvia doesn't have that at all. It's just weird. My response to DMT is "oh my God..." while my response to salvia is: "what just happened?"

Blessings
~ND

I did not think it was that stupid, I love to venture around the forest on LSD, even taking a run, hiking, or riding a bike is fun on LSD. While on salvia I suddenly got a burst of energy, and couldn't contain myself or happiness. I had to go somewhere, because sitting down just wasn't feeling right at the time. I don't think it was out of immaturity that I started moving around, it's that I had energy and happiness. I'm not sure how wanting to move around in a lush green field while I'm bursting at my seams with happiness is immature, but to each their own I suppose. I like to be active and having fun, yes sitting down and taking my trip in and cultivating what I get from the trip and learning from it is fun, but sometimes I like to be active and do spontaneous fun things because I'm an active happy person. It's strange to hear that if I'm not sitting down doing nothing every time I trip, it's considered immature. Hmm.

Salvia usually comes at me from the side and pulls me through into the completely absurd salvia space. I get a wispy thought , "ahh this place again!" too absurd for any words to describe where I hang out as an inanimate object with biomechanical beings. DMT is a centred much less disorientating experience.
It envelops me like a wave smashing me in the face within ten seconds. Forcibly and yet harmless.
The rush can be a bumpy launch but the plateua is a joyous and tranquil place albeit also incredibly alien. Both have the ability to leave you with nothing more than a laugh as you give in to astonishment "whaaat hahaaa..."

Which is more intense depends on dose of course. A small dose of DMT (let’s say 10mg) is less intense than a strong dose of Salvinorin A (about 2mg). And a strong dose of DMT (about 30mg for me) is much more intense than a threshold dose of Salvinorin A (about 0.2mg).

Anyhow, I’m surprised no one has mentioned the “salvia delay” – salvia takes a while to have an effect. If a dose is smoked rather quickly, there is a period of 20 – 30 seconds where one feels perfectly normal – no effects at all. I like this, because it allows me to put everything away and settle into position. With DMT, the effects often begin while still inhaling a dose.

If pre-flight anxiety is an indicator of the intensity, then DMT is much more intense: I frequently have at least some pre-flight anxiety prior to a breakthrough-sized dose of DMT, yet I’ve never had any pre-flight anxiety with salvia.

The reason fastfred mentioned how moving around is unsafe is because of the nature of salvia. Apparently you haven't seen all the bad things that have happened to people from getting up and running off while on salvia. I have never tried it myself but from what I've seen and read its important to have a sitter that will keep you from getting up. People have gotten hurt and IMO walkin around on LSD is a much different situation than on salvia.

Yes, with salvia, there is often the "Sally D Zombie Syndrome" as I like to think about it. The body's operating on its own and the pilot is god knows where. My friend once inadvertently broke his laptop and lamp, with eyes completely open. He had know idea what had transpired.

I've only had it happen to me once. I was at a friend's house, and I was sitting back in his recliner in the living room. There was a couple of us, and we had all unloaded the contents of our pockets and belts and whatnot onto the coffee table because of the strong tactile distortions from salvia. So I'm sitting back in the recliner, smoke the salvia, had one loopy trip as I fell from one scene into the next. When I "came to" around 5 minutes later, I was completely sprawled out on the coffee table and most of the stuff was either under me or on the floor.

When I asked my friends what had happened, they said that I had suddenly gotten up, tried to scale the bookcase, and finally turned around and fell on the coffee table. I was completely unaware of all of this despite being entirely conscious in the salvia space the whole time. At first I was quite baffled about being told I was trying to scale the bookcase, but it made sense when I thought about it because it kept on feeling like I was falling through the floor of one scene into another. This was probably going on as I was attempting to climb the bookcase, keeping on grabbing one shelf after another. The salvia experience is probably partially informed and modified by these motions, but the user is unconscious of the actual actions in the physical world.

I don't believe these actions are quite so "autonomous" as is the case with DMT and involuntary actions, but rather in the strong dissociation of the salvia space, as one attempts to come to one's bearings with madness, one may feel compelled to get up and move around, even if one is unaware that's what's going on. This kind of stuff typically happens at the higher dosage level. So yeah, with salvia, I would definitely recommend at a sitter more so than for other hallucinogens. I've never had something happen like that on DMT. I've never been so strongly dissociated on DMT either, no matter how high the dosage or intensity.

I agree with global, especially that zombie quote, one time i introduced a friend to salvia and we were sitting in a big lush field on a blanket and she ran frantically away. we had to chase her down.. sometimes you cant control yourself, its almost like your mind switches places with a salvia entity.

Ohh man, I got a good laugh visualizing that Global

Much love to ya brother

tat

I didn't mean to offend anyone with my earlier comment. But I think it's important to bring up safety issues like this. Hearing a few good reasons to stay still and hearing a few horror stories can only help avoid common dangers.

Psychedelics are a mental trip, and combining it with a physical trip is almost always a bad idea.

When I was less experienced I wasn't nearly as careful. Usually it was mistakes like not having all right supplies beforehand. Now I take great pains to have everything right beforehand and an optimal "set and setting".

Simple, minor mistakes seem to most frequently cause problems. A simple trip to the store can quickly go very wrong. A quick run or walk through the woods can quickly get you lost. Any delays or trouble can easily ruin the trip for everyone when they worry about you or get paranoid.

You never know what can happen when tripping. I once took some wellbutrin as a "high enhancer" and ended up in a black and white trip that felt like a movie. Less than 2 blocks from a friend's house in the town I grew up in I was lost. I spent what felt like a solid 15 minutes trying to figure out where I was. I knew I SHOULD know where I was but had no idea which way to go. Any contact with LEO or a concerned citizen would have likely ended with me in the hospital or jail.


In any case, your best bet is to completely disconnect yourself from your body and explore your mind. Physical sensations and sights are interesting and amazing, but ultimately detract from your mental exploration. They keep you tied to and occupied with the normal, physical world.

Get all your supplies ready, all your friends around and settled, and lock the door. Stay inside until you're well on the comedown. Outside is great, but stay by the campfire or in the same field where you won't get lost or separated. If you want to move, WALK! Take in the sights and sensations. Running will give you a feeling of euphoria or exuberance, but you're wasting most of your mental energy in the moment trying to manage your body, not fall, avoid obstacles, etc.. Best case you're wasting your innerspace exploration time, worst case you get distracted, misjudge something, or have a plain old regular accident that can easily happen when running.

You can run, jump, and fool around anytime. Horseplay when you're tripping is just a bad idea. There's also plenty of time during the comedown for such things. When you're coming down and want to re-up the excitement a little, then take a walk or run. When you're back to 70-95% normality you can do whatever you want with a lot less risk. The important part is that if you DO get into trouble at least you know you'll be able to handle it and you'll also be straight before long.

When I trip with friends we get everything ready and lock the door. We set our watches on timer mode, and everything from then on is on trip time. If someone stops by we usually tell them to come back later. If someone wants to leave we talk them out of it. The outside world is outside and we're in a different place. The outside world is on "straight time" and doesn't understand us, so we don't deal with them.

Most of this shouldn't even apply to short psychedelics like DMT and salvia. Those are so short acting that you should never even think about doing anything other than savoring that brief experience.

If you can't be still for 15-30 minutes... Maybe you're just a little too wild or in the wrong mind state to be doing psychedelics at that specific time. You should always do a personal inventory before any trip and decide if it really is the optimal time for you to trip. A wise person will put irrational fear aside, but carefully note anything else that might make it a good idea to pick a better time.

I've made hyper friends go for a run to get it out of their system BEFOREHAND. It's certainly a good idea for anyone who likes to run. A good stretch and a little cardio is a REALLY good idea for everyone. It wakes you up, gets you feeling good, and gets your mind straight and active. The stretching helps you feel relaxed, reduces chances of cramps, and helps prevent restlessness. For me, it's an important part of the preparation routine.

Having a good preparation routine is key IMHO. Get everything done, prepare your body and mind a little, and let go of everything else first. Any good athlete can tell you that a routine is key. It focuses your mind and gets you to release any other worries. A pitcher or batter have their routines, normally they do the exact same thing every time. Even a little routine like this puts their mind in the right state and focuses them on one specific task.

Hopefully the advice here is helpful. Just a little logical reasoning, advice, and knowledge before hand can really help people to be safe IME. Hopefully you're now armed with solid reasoning about why you want to stay physically and mentally still so that you can get the most out of your experience and also remain maximally safe.


I see a few people posting about the confusing aspects of salvia. I experienced this my first salvia trip (pretty powerful), then had one or two more that were too weak to be very interesting. I cursed salvia as a worthless psychedelic that only produced useless stupor and confusion. However, I did eventually break through and have a couple wonderful trips.

I'm not sure if this is a physiological effect, purely psychological, or some sort of mind-learning. But if you had useless confusion and stupor, my advice is not to write salvia off as useless. Give it a few chances at various dosages. It's probably the only drug I've tried where my first impression was completely wrong. It's not my preferred substance by any means, but there is certainly some value there, even if you don't see it the first few times.


-FF

Neither for me compared to the complete balls to the wall intensity of reality this past six months.

I used to partake in these debates, but I've come to the conclusion that reality tops the intensity scale and it's a gift and curse that just keeps on giving up until the end.