Dear friends,

My name is David from the Minnesota area. I'm seeking practical advice about an ayahuasca journey I'm planning on taking very soon as a culmination of years of mental preparation and seeking the spiritual realm. I am in need of guidance from within and beyond.

I attempted to take this journey with much thought and preparation one year ago. After the recommended fasting, and with a friend by my side in a beautiful place, I consumed 3 grams of Syrian Rue seeds (P. Harmala) and 7 grams of Mimosa Hostilis root bark.

Unfortunately, the journey was halted before it started, as the "purge" was so horrible that I was vomiting on the ground for an hour, foaming at the mouth believing I may die. (Usually I can stomach anything!) I cannot at all describe how ill I felt, but was so physically and mentally drained that I could barely move. Despite being in a beautiful place, with a positive, spiritual mindset, and expecting good things, the minor visionary effects I had from the experience were largely menacing. Could this be the result of feeling so physically/mentally awful from the sickness/purge?

Needless to say, it is an experience that I do not care to repeat. So, I need advice about going into this again and having a good experience. I also need good preparation advice for this purpose.

If anybody who has gone through this with a positive outcome can express how you did it, please let me know!

My previous recipe:
3 grams Syrian Rue seeds, ground to powder, prayerfully taken directly orally 1/2 hour prior to ingesting my Mimosa Hostilis preparation. This MHRB preparation was 7 grams of powdered root bark-- turned to sludge by boiling it lightly on the stove with Real Lemon lemon juice. I drank it directly; it was not strained.

Question: Was it the unstrained ayahuasca that caused such a violent, ill purge?

I plan to try again, boiling it down significantly longer-- like, to a shot glass size. I also plan on straining it through a fine-mesh perma-coffee-filter multiple times to make it more liquid and less sludge. Also, instead of RealLemon, I plan on using Cider Vinegar.

I also am considering taking plenty of Maalox along with and popping a Pepcid prior to ingestion of anything. (Perhaps, some cannabis, also?)

Are these good methods? Are there better?

Thank you for any and all input you might have!

With much peace,
-David

morning firespirit, welcome to the Nexus,

so did you consume the ground seeds and the powdered MHRB mush?

if you did then that is likely the reason you were so ill, theres no need to eat the plant material just brew the plants and drink that, or extract the alks and do Pharma, this normally leaves me with no nausea at all.

Hey 3rdI!

Yes, I did ingest the plant material directly for both. I'm not sure I have the setup to create pharma, but I can definitely brew the tea without the material in it... They were powdered previously-- should I grind them up a little more course?

Thx.

hey DAvid, glad to hear you have the courage to continue, most 1st experiences are very rough, i know mine was, and can often scare off people into retaking. But i think one needs to realize that the hard journeys are hard for good reason,negative energies are usually surfaced and confronted to be purged, the purge is about shedding all the accumulative garbage built up inside you over the years so makes sense, its all part of the healing so in my mind with ayahuasca there is no such thing as a "bad trip", so after a while you learn to love the purge . aya is most demanding psychedelic yet to try so i found there are for sure things to improve an experience-set,setting,diet,music,meditation,INTENT, if theres something u need just ask her... n what you took dont believe is even considered ayahuasca, but pharmauasca, aya is caapi not rue. They both can be healing but in my experience found caapi to be much more gentle and guiding, also maybe consider chacruna since found its also slightly more gentle, also id recommend holding off all the additives u listed, they can usually tend to cloud and color the experience. I found best result just taking straight up, its never easy but most thing in life worth doing arnnt, you always will come out better on the other side, happy journeys

id say thats defo the source of you sickness.

as long as your plants are powdered they will be fine, just follow the usual brewing times and I think you will have a much better time than your first attempt.

good luck and let us know how it goes

Perhaps that journey released some negative energy lurking somewhere I wasn't aware of previously . . . I suppose even the hard hits are cause for reflection! Anyway, I didn't know that there was a difference between ayahusasca and the Mimosa Hostilis/Syrian Rue combo. Thanks for sharing your experience about the caapi, also. As additives go, you mean it's best to hold off on the Pepcid, Maalox, cannibas, etc? (Hope I can keep it down long enough!) Or did you mean the cider vinegar extraction?

Peace!

Thanks! I'm praying there are some kind spirits out there ready to show me something new this time! I'll let you know how it turns out.

-David

AS 3rdI said, no need to consume the plant matter directly. Do this:

3x3 boils (three 3-hour boils), do the rue and mimosa separate, combine the boils of each, reduce to roughly a shots worth. Take the rue shot first, wait 20 minutes, then take the mhrb shot. That should guarantee a solid experience. But yeah, the eating the rue seeds directly is probably why you purged.

And yes, being sick/drained/etc initially and then purging could potentially lend you to a menacing experience, or 'the appearance of a menacing experience'. It's all about the preparation beforehand, trust me. Set up a VERY comfortable space: incense, music, pillows, blankets, water, fruit, etc. Anything to aid you in feeling comfortable.

And despite the fact that some experiences can go south, my best advice is to just smile and ride it out, because usually, more times than not, the experience just needs time to unfold....and when it does so...it's beautiful...sometimes shockingly so.

Much love,
tat

Thanks for the assuring words, Tat!

I believe I'll follow this instruction as closely as possible. Thank you for the advice, and I'm looking forward to a shockingly beautiful experience! And, yes, a comfortable space is in the works!!!

-David

I would suggest fully researching any drug you are going to ingest and because you didn't do it properly to begin with im going to assume you didn't. Please for your safety and also common courtesy to others who may want to experience this as well, research this stuff. Maois can kill you if you combine them with the wrong thing. Syrian rue and banisteriopsis caapi are maoi drugs and with the wrong thing can produce hypertensive crisis, serotonin syndrome and even death. please be careful and responsible.


* and personally I would do a cold water extraction on the mimosa, if you're lucky enough to get that.

And if you enjoy smoking pot regularly, I would say go for it. I smoke everytime I dose, and I think it aids the nausea quite a bit with no negative side effect. However, if you don't smoke pot often or if marijuana makes you overly paranoid, I might suggest otherwise.

Yes, set up that space because - and here's the important part - you shouldn't count on being able to move. It tends to be quite immobilizing. The rue itself can be very sedating and nauseating in its own right. My first ayahuasca experience went something like yours. It was extremely unpleasant, but successive ones since then have been incredible, so I wouldn't necessarily give up on it yet. So yeah, don't plan on moving.

Also getting sick is also sorta typical protocol with ayahuasca. The hope is that you purge it all up, and then after that you should be nausea-free and well-on-your-way. Unfortunately this isn't always the case. Sometimes purging is not easy to do, or to get all of it up, but it's a risk that I've realized is worth taking.

Also, in the event that the experience is disappointing with mild to little visuals, my suggestion would be to have a little bit of DMT ready to smoke. If that doesn't kick-start things up a few levels, I don't know what will, but exercise caution because you'll need much less than usual to get much further than you've probably ever gotten. Here's an example of what happened to me one time when I smoked DMT on ayahuasca.

Thank you for the thoughts/concern- I actually have done a great deal of research with pause and understanding. I have literally done, over time, somewhere close to a thousand hours or research on psychopharmacology before entering into this stuff. Sometimes, you just have to experience though.

As before, and again now, I am ceasing medications and aware of the risks of hypertensive crisis and serotonin syndrome.

Thank you for the share! I definitely expect the purge to be part of the experience as a whole, and will be ready with soft blankets and everything!

Perhaps the Syrian Rue overly sedated me last time, however-- something I hadn't seriously considered . . . In the past, I have had very, very bad experiences with any medications that even have slight sedative effects for some strange reason. Benadryl (dyphenhydramine) will nearly incapacitate me for a day at normal doses. Trazadone prescribed by my doctor as a "sleep aid" in slight amounts threw me off the cliff for a week.

Hmm... maybe decreasing the Syrian Rue or replacing it with the caapi is in order for future quests...

Another tek that I've read about is the egg white method-- on the final brew, adding the whites of one egg to the mix which removes the tannins. Then you strain them out. (Has anybody reading this heard of this or know of how it impacts the final experience?)

Peace,
-David

I wouldn't bother with the egg thing, just filter the boils through a t-shirt then reduce and drink.

IME caapi is much kinder than syrian rue.

also, rue extractions can be done easily with regular kitchen utensils and almost no strange chemicals. It might be worth a shot to try an extraction. If you have the time you might also just want to try rue (brew or extract) by itself to see how it affects you. If the rue itself already gives you a hard time you might want to consider trying caapi instead. and if that doesn't work then perhaps a caapi powedered extract.

Usually I only get nausea when mixing caapi with dmt, not caapi alone, unless in very high doses.

good luck