We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
Solvent vapor extraction, just a theory. Options
 
leon
#1 Posted : 7/20/2013 1:20:41 AM
aimsiú fhírinne


Posts: 62
Joined: 06-Jun-2013
Last visit: 08-Dec-2023
I thought of this idea after studying steam distillations for essential oils. My hypothesis was that using a very similar lab setup you can do solvent pulls from our bark without having to filter. The idea is to simmer your solvent and let the vapor pass threw the organic matter in a biomass flask, then condense it back into a liquid. I theorize that this setup can be used for both acid/base extractions along with the FASA method by using different catalysts. Right now I will express my thoughts of using the FASA method with this setup. You would first have to soak the organic material in citric acid so most of the compounds will bind to citrate. Once the precursor is dry, place it into the biomass flask and set up the rest of the apparatus. Slowly boil the acetone and let it pass threw the precursor, hopefully the extract should pull better because of vapor pressure. Once it starts condensing let it drip into a pre measured beaker of FASA. You should know what to do with it at that point. I'm sure you all could figure out a way to use this in a STB method. Hopefully more detailed instructions and a more solid pictorial will be out soon. This is a chicken scratch drawing of the setup. I hope it can be fully understood what I mean my this post. This apparatus could be used for making many things. Not just demetri. I will continue my research on this concept as long as the concept cant be disproven.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
benzyme
#2 Posted : 7/20/2013 2:21:47 AM

analytical chemist

Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert

Posts: 7463
Joined: 21-May-2008
Last visit: 03-Mar-2024
Location: the lab
the reason it would work for essential oils is they are volatile.
salts are not.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
Shadowman-x
#3 Posted : 7/20/2013 2:34:10 AM

x-namwodahs

Senior Member | Skills: Relationship & emotional support/counselling

Posts: 528
Joined: 12-Nov-2009
Last visit: 28-May-2023
could material be made basic and wetted lightly, THEN have the vaporized solvent steamed through it?
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
 
leon
#4 Posted : 7/20/2013 3:35:01 AM
aimsiú fhírinne


Posts: 62
Joined: 06-Jun-2013
Last visit: 08-Dec-2023
benzyme wrote:
the reason it would work for essential oils is they are volatile.
salts are not.

You don't think there's any way to treat the precursor safely so it can work? What if you had the vapor transferred downward threw the biomass filter. Kind of like an espresso machine. Does acetone vapor simply not bond with the compounds in bark, even if the bark is pre-treated?
 
Shadowman-x
#5 Posted : 7/20/2013 4:34:44 AM

x-namwodahs

Senior Member | Skills: Relationship & emotional support/counselling

Posts: 528
Joined: 12-Nov-2009
Last visit: 28-May-2023
io think what benzyme meant is that volatile oils will transfer into a gaseous state with an appropriate solvent and be carreied over in the gas phase, but that salts of molecules are not volatile and thus will not be carried over in the gas phase.

...i think.
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
 
InMotion
#6 Posted : 7/20/2013 5:43:49 AM
DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member | Skills: 3D programming, Mathematician (if you need help with algebra to differential equations I'm available), SKilled Engineer

Posts: 473
Joined: 07-Aug-2011
Last visit: 10-Jan-2014
You're on the right track. Unfortunately I see some pretty big errors here. The main one being what benzyme has said. Think reflux instead of distillation and that is effectively a soxhelet.

This might work for some compounds and solvents. Alkaloids I don't think so.

You're idea to pass the acetone vapor down through the biomass then condense it is interesting. I don't see much of any benefit to doing this verses a water extraction for most plant sources.
 
leon
#7 Posted : 7/20/2013 7:21:58 AM
aimsiú fhírinne


Posts: 62
Joined: 06-Jun-2013
Last visit: 08-Dec-2023
InMotion wrote:


You're idea to pass the acetone vapor down through the biomass then condense it is interesting. I don't see much of any benefit to doing this verses a water extraction for most plant sources.

I think using vapor would require a lot less pulls. Maybe you could push citric IPA vapor down the biomass, condensed into a jar of fasa. Maybe there's a solvent where a type of dmt is soluble in a steam form, and solidified at room temperature.
 
benzyme
#8 Posted : 7/20/2013 8:15:15 AM

analytical chemist

Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert

Posts: 7463
Joined: 21-May-2008
Last visit: 03-Mar-2024
Location: the lab
leon wrote:

I think using vapor would require a lot less pulls.


actually, liquid phase is more ideal from a practical standpoint, because of the relative proximity of molecules in solvent/solute interactions.
the phase isn't as relevant as solubility, partition coeff. (xlogp,etc.); careful selection of solvent would be a wiser thought exercise, then proceed with various methods known in the art.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
Mindlusion
#9 Posted : 7/20/2013 11:32:35 AM

Chairman of the Celestial Divison

Extreme Chemical expertChemical expertSenior Member

Posts: 1393
Joined: 21-Jul-2010
Last visit: 11-Aug-2024
Location: the ancient cluster
You might have some luck extracting kavalactones with this setup.

I set up a basic steam distillation on some powdered kava extract in attempt to distill the essential oil.

It worked, and was potent. but not in great yields, an alcoholic extract saved more of the goodies.

I was worried about the heat from the steam destroying the kavalactones, this method looks like it would avoid that problem.
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
leon
#10 Posted : 7/21/2013 9:34:29 AM
aimsiú fhírinne


Posts: 62
Joined: 06-Jun-2013
Last visit: 08-Dec-2023
New idea, making the alkaloids in the bark into there freebase. then sucking a steaming np solvent threw it Into a cold beaker.
 
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest (2)

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.022 seconds.