I am more than halfway to my blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, and have studied Bagua. I believe that martial arts is perfect for a mind/body synthesis - one complimentarily maximizes the other. As far as for the psychedelic mix, martial arts is a practice originated from the East, so mixing in Eastern philosophy/states of consciousness with the bodily practice,, to my mind, would maximize it all even further.

Reviving this thread

Martial arts is one of the best things that happened in my life!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgjJWKV_36o

Very recommended video from jiu jitsu martial artist . He mentions ayahuasca and weed, and there's some great moves, specially cool rolling starting at around min 8:30.

Thanks for the link endlessness jiu jitsu is a massive part of my life always enjoy seeing the profound effect it can have on people. inspirational video indeed.

I started doing bjj about 10years ago, before it i was a couchslacking pothead with not real future ahead.

Bjj changed my life and gave me confidence in myself and in the concept of hard work pays of.


I trained very seriously for about 6years with breaks only for injuries, i got pretty damn good and have gone about 100matches in bjj and sub wrestling.

Did also alot of weight lifting which i also love but there is always a price for succes.



The last 3years have been bad though since my lower back has been slowly givin up, i was really bad for about a year but im on my way back(no pun)

The last 6months ive been getting into yoga and now i do some very basic but awesome asanas daily and try to get down to meditate as much as possible.



Overall its great but in the last years ive learnt that if you do something, whatever it is your ego will blow up if you get good at it.

So train hard and aim for the sky, but please dont think you are something special even if you kick dat ass

Very important observation, IMHO.

eH

Hmmmm.... Missed this thread first time around, glad endlessness revived it.

I started with martial arts in the summer before kindergarten. This means I have over 40 years experience now. There were fallow periods where I practiced very little, but I always kept at least my meditation, energy work and dream work going. I can say that being a practitioner of the internal arts is one of the single biggest factors in my becoming who I am, and continues to pay off every hour of every day.

I started with a generic Korean "Self-Defense," but quickly moved through Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, Kuk Sul Won and then stayed for some time in Shotokan Karate with a side practice of Judo and Aikido. By the time I hit my pre-teens and had won a number of competitions, I was bored with competitive sport style arts, and began seeking out a real master. (my Karate Sensei was an Olympian, but not a master in the sense I wanted.)

I tried a number of styles of Kung Fu, which I perceived to be the most comprehensive of the arts available to me in those days... and to this day still. Eventually, I found what I was looking for. I stumbled on a school with a real lineage going back many thousands of years with a real grandmaster from a Cantonese Taoist monastery as our founder and leader. He had been chased out of China by Mao and spent a long time paying his dues working for the triads in San Francisco before coming down to Southern California.

All of his senior students were masters in their own right, and my direct Sifu was a lexicon of martial arts, having studied with a who's who of the great California masters. He is now in the martial arts hall of fame himself. Thus, I was blessed to be able to learn a wide variety of Kung Fu styles both Buddhist and Taoist, Northern and Southern, as well as Tai Chi (many styles), Pa Kua, Hsing I, Water Boxing, Kali, Lima Lama, Kenpo, Mok Gar... etc. etc.

I was made to learn the entirety of our system... which included mostly non-martial things like Chinese medicine, herbs, caligraphy, philosophy, tui na massage, Taoist sexual yoga, lucid dreaming and much more. My studio was rather far from my house and required 3 buses and a couple hours to get there, and yet I went every day it was open, took all of the classes offered... including all of the workshops, and spent over 5hrs a day there (often neglecting school entirely). I was allowed to sleep over my Sifu's house and spent many a night falling asleep watching his vast collection of rare videos of kung fu masters.

I was forced to learn the martial aspects and we had a deadly style which mixed Kenpo with internal arts to devastating effect. (In practice it looked a bit like San Soo, but with emphasis on discharging internal power...) I hated it. I had absolutely no interest in hurting anyone, let alone crushing windpipes and breaking necks. The very thought of using this stuff on anyone sickened me. By the time I learned to kill people in the blink of an eye (MMA guys have no idea) I vowed not to ever use it. Remember that I could already break 4 oak boards with my bare hands when I was 8.

My Sifu understood, and let me focus on the chi kung, nei kung, shen kung etc. But I was still required to demonstrate proficiency in the fighting as long as I was taking the "external" arts classes. (none of our arts were purely external) As a teen training there, I had little or no money, so my Sifu let me train for free... I had to teach beginner classes, warm up the intermediates, sweep the floors, clean the mirrors, take out the trash etc. As one of the Si Hengs I was often the first to arrive and the last to leave.

Sifu knew of my use of psychedelics and had no issue with it... in fact we would discuss Castaneda and Huxley. He was a bit more critical of cannabis as he felt it put holes in your aura, but he never asked me to stop using it.

When it came time to go to University I didn't want to go. Sifu made me. So, I drove 7 or more hours nearly every weekend to come down and train with him. (Also to see a girlfriend who was a grade behind me.) Eventually, I had a terrible car accident and my visits became more sporadic. But I trained daily throughout that period. I continued to train alone and with my teachers over the following years. Travelling a great deal in my 20's and 30's, but coming around to take private lessons and just be in the presence of my Sifu and the other masters.

At one point I was lucky enough to find a recording studio near to my kung fu studio... this was bliss itself, but it didn't last.

At this point, I see Sifu rarely, but we communicate over the phone or Skype sometimes. He sends me emails with pdfs of the books he writes etc. But, nowadays, my biggest teachers are entities and dream masters. It had been moving that way for quite some time. After University I trained with shaman and ayahuasceros, and became more and more connected to spirit guides, angelic beings, and other reservoirs of vast knowledge. I gave up practicing fighting entirely, and am now content to just do the internal work for the most part... which dovetails nicely with psychonautic activities. Over 1000 journeys (probably closer to 5 or 10k tbh) and I am still learning new things every time out of the box.

That about sums it up.

HF

my dad got me started at a young age, enrolling me in itosu-kai shito-ryu (essentially shotokan - with a slightly lower stance, and more circular movement in the advanced techniques) when i was probably not even 10 (my memory is just shit).

so that was my bread and butter for a while. then i moved on to aikido and muay thai.

right now my focus is primarily bjj/judo and muay thai.

talked to a guy who teaches systema, and he said he would give me a deal if i helped teach him some of my martial knowledge, so i might start that up, but haven't tried it as of yet.


i have no idea how long i have been practicing (Again, horrible memory) but it has been pretty consistently frequent since i was young. plus i sometimes wonder if i have a genetic advantage (my brother, father, grandfather, and uncle are all martial artists and decent fighters - i don't know enough about my ancestry to make any claims past my grandfather - but martial arts have always felt very natural to me - and i am a quick learner)

Did taekwondo when i was 16 until the age of 18. Got my first degree. Helped tremendously in flexibility, especially legs/groin. Taekwondo had helped me develop great kicking power, which has transferred over greatly into Muay Thai. Lots of memorization exercises of various sequenced katas.

Stopped marital arts for several years until i was 22. There was a local gym that had multiple coaches/teachers teaching muay thai, boxing, and BJJ. I eventually dropped the boxing class and now I primarily focus on BJJ, with muay thai being secondary. Currently a brown belt in BJJ. Been at these 2 disiplines off n' on for the better part of 5 years.

Not much is more humbling (or fun) than rolling with highly experienced BJJ students and getting your a$% handed to you (or neck for that matter). A constant evolution. A physical chess match. (im sure endlessness catches my drift)

much love,
tat

yea, bjj is great. easily my favorite art.

you might be interested in judo, it is very synergistic with bjj training

I love reading about your martial art stories, everybody!

Hyperspace Fool, did you get to explore Aikido much? You mention it as a side thing, but I was thinking it had a lot to do with you. You said you didn't like the competition sports, and aikido has none of the competition aspect. It also seems to play a lot with the Chi aspect which you're interested in. And the man who started it apparently had some big spiritual revelations...

A friend of mine is into aikido, always says good things about it. I was gonna start training with him but im moving elsewhere. I think it would be a good complement to bjj.

Parshvik, very interesting story too, nice to know martial arts played such a big part in your life!

Do you guys feel martial arts somehow affect your psychonautic exploration? If so, how?

Tattvamasi, most definitely I know what you mean This is one of the aspects that got me interested in bjj in the first place, how strategic, intelligent, chess-like it is.

I totally feel like it is something for life, and even though i've only started it fairly recently, it has already become a very deep part of me. Every single day with no exceptions it's on my mind. The whole philosophy of not-forcing, using leverage instead of strenght, adapting to the situation, using the other's force against him, keeping calm in moments of danger/stress, thinking ahead, etc, all of this can be taken to every level of one's life.

Sometimes I am walking down the street and see someone I imagine myself doing a kimura, or arm-drag and getting this person's back, lol.. Of course not in an agressive way wanting to fight, more like, imagining if situation came to be and I needed to do it

Do you bjj practitioners have any favorite position or technique you like to explore?

While its useless in a self defense situation/real fight my current favorite thing at the moment is taking the back using the berimbolo sweep.

Also for me I actually feel BJJ and psychedelics almost go hand in hand, I'm sure could be true for other martial arts. I like watching Jiu jitsu videos while on Lsd.

Yeah endlessness... I did rather enjoy Aikido. At that time, it was the most "internal" and spiritual of the arts I was doing. Even later when I got into the deeply internal Chinese styles that became my main thing, my Sifu and I enjoyed watching video of old Morihei Ueshiba tossing people around.

He did have a number of revelations, and was a lot more like a Chinese master in many ways. He spent a lot of time in China, and it is likely he learned some kind of internal art while there... probably Tai Chi Chuan IMHO.

My interest in Aikido was eclipsed by things like Pa Kua & Hsing I though. The internal chi kung systems of these Taoist Kung Fu styles is so ridiculously comprehensive (if you learn them from someone who really knows them) that most other styles seem tame and quaint to me. In our system of Kung Fu, you are not really even considered a beginner until you have put in 10 to 20 years of hard work (the definition of Kung Fu btw). I was fortunate indeed to be able to study with people who knew the totality of a bunch of styles that are rather rare like White Cloud, White Eyebrow, Hung Gar, Tao Tan Pai, Water Boxing and more.

I know of very few martial arts that are so comprehensive. You don't find many teachers (especially in the west) who teach you sexual tantric techniques, dreamwork, astral projection and the higher arts...

Anyway, the internal work goes hand in glove with psychonautic activities. The awareness, focus, intent and willpower developed are directly translatable, and knowledge of energy centers, alchemic cultivation and astral work is the bread and butter of being able to do amazing things when on entheogens.

Of course, meditation is essential...

much like my favorite song: it changes frequently based on my mood, and the novelty (to me) of the technique.

Endlessness,

Favorite technique..hrmm. Even though im not really good at it and I mainly just do this technique fooling around, id have to say a flying triangle from the clinch. Honestly, if practiced enough, that could easily become a 'one-move-put-the-assailant-out' type pf technique. All it would take is a close quarters scuffle, clinch behind the neck with both hands, jump up, secure legs/positioning, move their arm across, and the person will have no choice but to drop to the ground from all your weight (unless they want to wear you as a necklace).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIC2RgBjcwk theres a link there showing the technique

I would say the memorization of movements/techniques, controlling of breath under intense situations, and respecting the people that i train with has carried over immensely into my psychedelic usage. Also psychedelics have brought alot to my training, such as seeing openings that werent perceivable before, thinking outside the box in terms of next move, and staying humble no matter the situation. Those are just a few off the top of my head.

How about you endless? What's your favorite technique?


much love,
tat

Yeah berimbolos look very nice and seem to work great We did train some berimbolo drills a few times but I haven't 'gotten it' enough to feel comfortable in using when rolling with others.

As for watching jiu jitsu videos on lsd, this reminds me.. Did you guys ever train martial arts on psychedelics?




Is this what you mean with Pa Kua http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baguazhang ?

Seems very interesting, I had never heard of these styles you mention.





Flying triangle or flying armbar are awesome, I never tried to do one when rolling though.... I'd be worried of being smashed on the ground in a real fight situation, but if you can already take the guy down as you do it, then you're set.

I got a basic game so far, nothing fancy.. I like playing guard and sweeping, or half guard and sweeping. I tend to triangle people a lot, maybe my long legs help. And my favorite different submission is the crucifix, I love doing that when people are on turtle guard. Ive also learned a variation from it that works with no gi.


btw, you guys watch any instructional videos? Anything you specially like? I've been enjoying saulo ribeiro's videos a lot.

Yes, today many people refer to it as Ba Gua. Back when I started with Kung Fu, we still used the older transliterations, and much of the literature on this art spells it Pa Kua. This is a problem for many people, and I understand the move to use transliterations that sound closer to the actual pronunciations... but I will probably always use the old transliterations.

Kung Fu is now Gung or Gong Fu to many...
Chi Kung is now often Qi Gong or Chi Gung.
Pa Kua Chang is often written Ba Gua Zhang
Hsing I Chuan is seen these days as Xing Yi Quan

This is the same idea behind Peking now being Beijing. I suppose I am kind of old school. I like the old Wade-Giles transliterations.

It is not so easy to come in contact with some of the arts I talked about. Some are known well, but rarely seen practiced... like Water Boxing (Lu Ho Ba Fa or Liuhebafachuan) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liuhebafa

I never saw the wikipedia pages on these arts, and looking through them, I found many things said rather interesting, though a lot of it contradicts the histories that I was taught. It seems wikipedia likes to focus on the modern and easily verified lineages and often claims dates of origin for these arts which are laughable to those in the know. In our tradition, we trace these arts back considerably farther... often to Immortal Taoist sages who lived in the wild.

My Grand Sifu told me a story about learning a Pa Kua form from an old hermit who would come to the monastery from time to time to converse with his Sifu and Grand Sifu. The legend is that he had been coming there to impart his wisdom since before anyone alive then was born. He took my Grand Sifu out into the woods and gave him a special form which is still the highest and last form he will teach anyone. He also instructed him in harvesting herbs and preparing liniments that could heal bruises and broken bones in a day. (Dit Dat Jaow)

Many people dismiss the tales of hermits and immortals because they sound fantastic and like something people made up. But these masters are serious folk. They don't make stuff up, and I have experienced enough inexplicable and miraculous things with them that I take this stuff rather seriously. It is said that these old masters could not only levitate... but fly like dragons.

Needless to say, even the mere mortal masters I knew were incredible to watch. Their chi was electric, and they could toss me around willy nilly... seemingly without even touching me. Sometimes some hardasses from other schools would come in challenge them. Most of the time they would play innocent peaceful "we don't practice fighting, we just meditate etc." but occasionally they would teach people a lesson. I saw one guy with 3 black belts in external arts come in and Sifu took his best attack and stopped him cold with 2 fingers... froze him stiff. Then as Sifu walked away slowly... he waved his hand flippantly, and the guy flew a good 15 - 20 feet still stiff as a board into a wall where he lay crying.

I offered to help him up, but he refused. He didn't just bow, he prostrated himself fully on the ground and still weeping left.

I don't expect you to believe this, but as someone who was used to be thrown by force... I wasn't really surprised. You can not fight masters like that. There is no competition. There is no using techniques or leverage. They play with you the way that a cat plays with a mouse he has already torn the legs off of. Really. They even have that disturbing cat like look in their eyes.

All I can say is that I knew that even in my best moments they could kill me any time they wanted... and I was never a slouch. People watch videos of 10 people piling on a master (Ueshiba liked this demonstration as well) and then shuddering and sending everyone flying and think it must be fake... it is not. Even the least of these guys could take on 10 MMA champions and not break a sweat. They are simply on another level.

Hehehehe...

Let the skeptics have a field day with me. I could care less.

Note: And yes, I have practiced Kung Fu plenty of times while high as a kite. In fact, it is hard for me not to practice when on a journey of any length. I almost HAVE to do some chi kung or I feel out of sorts and can not channel the energy properly.

Hyperspace Fool,

Could you go into some depth about the energetic, meditative, spiritual, and philosophical side of your training? I started doing Taiji, Qigong, and a bit of Bagua circle walking about two years ago and feel there is something terribly deep and profound but I have not yet touched the depth. I have no interest in combat (other than games like push hands, etc) and am only interested in the internal arts as vehicles of knowledge and revelation. But sometimes I think it is all just a fantasy and I'm deceiving myself.

Could you say a bit about how you currently structure 40 years of training into your current, coherent discipline? Could you say how the internal arts connect with lucid dreaming and astral projection? Could you write a book for me?

I've been reading some very interesting books on the subject about which I'd love to hear your opinions if you have any. Damo Mitchell warns against using any psychedelics while training Nei Gong in "Daoist Nei Gong: The Philosophical Art of Change." Meredith gives the most profound explanation of Taiji that I've come across in "Juice: Radical Taiji Energetics."

Thanks for all your insights!

eH

Do you actually believe this or are you just taking the piss? I was trying not to comment as everyone should believe in the value of there chosen art but really can't work out if your serious.

Obviously I disagree and believe traditional martial artists as far as unarmed combat goes are miles behind modern day MMA athletes.

Heheheeh.

I suppose I could write a book about this... though it would be a bit before I could make time for it. I will add it to the "to-do list."

To be quick about this, I will say that energy work is a type of cultivation. It is not a formula that you can just follow directions and achieve immediate results. It is much more like planting seeds that bear fruit years later.

I don't think there are many shortcuts, but entheogens could very well act as such if done correctly. (never read either book you mentioned, but I respect that many practitioners frown on drug use and approach the arts from a "natural high" perspective) My teachers not only didn't forbid it, but encouraged me in my psychonaut activities... though I know other students who were steered away from the very same substances, so I think it is a person by person thing. I have found that some people are cut out for this stuff and others are not... it has a lot to do with your energetic roots and your temperament.

A lot of people don't want to hear this, because it makes psychonaut work seem like an elitist club, but I think that there are a large number of people who have no business taking these substances with any regularity... and there are some people who should never do them... at least not without first beefing up their mind-body-soul quite a bit.

I think there are enough books dealing with the basic practices and philosophy that you should be able to find good info, and even if there are no true masters in your area, you can at least learn some forms to practice. I learned a ton of stuff, but I know some people who only ever learned one or two forms and still became quite advanced. Even only doing things like Pa Tuan Shin (8 pieces of the brocade or Silkweaver's Exercise).

The fact is that chi kung and nei kung are not complicated and don't look like much from the outside... but they are the lead for the pencil. It often takes people 5 years of real practice before they learn to see or feel chi. Until then, you are basically faking it till you make it so to speak. However, once you can sense chi in some form, you can really begin working with it.

At this stage, you go from just repeating rote forms (which are generally just simple breathing exercises coupled with specific but relatively easy movements) to actual ALCHEMY. You begin to learn to differentiate various kinds of energy, and combine them in various "cauldrons" (i.e. energy centers) and then use them to various effects. You learn to convert and purify lower forms of energy into subtler forms and use these things to feed your nervous system. This, in turn, allows you even greater perception and awareness and the ability to do more.

Real chi kung then becomes a process of rewiring your central nervous system. It is as if you start with wiring that can only handle a few watts at a low voltage... and then you keep upgrading your meridians and cleaning out the blockages until you can handle thousands. Generally, the inability to channel the energy keeps people from engaging in activities they are not ready for, but it is possible to overload your system in various ways... which can be dangerous and lead to very negative things like losing your mind and physical injury. Sometimes an accident that strikes a specific location can release a lot of stored ancestral chi (jing chi) and this can cause problems. It is basically what people call premature kundalini release (to borrow a phrase from yoga).

(a heavy blow to the sacrum, wrenching the spine, a blow to the head etc.)

If someone full of blockages and with poor meridians and inactive energy centers gets a dose of high energy it can shut off organs or even kill people... i.e. the touch of death. This is why most masters would never do something extremely energetic like move you via telekinesis when you are not advanced enough to handle the energy. Skeptics often say, "Well, throw me like that then so I know it is not fake..." But the masters will always decline this, not because they are charlatans, but because they could kill these people if they did.

Once you get your system rewired... the real fun begins.

Anyway, I don't have time to go into much more detail now. Besides, these early stages of energy work take years to complete... so there is generally no hurry.

All I can say is that seeing energy, discharging it in physical ways, learning to leave your body, WILDing, and even more fantastic things are part of the teaching, though you will be hard pressed to find teachers who even know this... let alone be willing to teach you.

Thankfully, most of these things can be learned from other sources. There are plenty of great books on dreamwork... including Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projection. If your Kung Fu school doesn't teach sexual yoga (absolutely essential) then find a Tantra teacher... they tend to be abundant these days.

I wish you the best of luck my friend. Sorry if I missed some questions. I may re-read your post and add something later... after a nice cacao drink and a smoke.

Peace and Blessings
HF

The problem with claims like the ones hf is making is that they are just that, claims on an internet board doesnt mean much im afraid.

Now im not saying that just because these kung fu masters arent proving their skills that they cant do all this crazy stuff, but so far noone has stepped up and i can totally understand that.

They probably dont have any ego to show of their super crazy energy stuff, if it exists that is.


I do know one thing though, mma is getting big in china and it doesnt really look anything different than mma anywhere else.

Also there is sanshou which is chinese kickboxing with throws.





ps: this is the only fight of an energy master vs mma guy ive ever seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I