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Iboga and Ibogaine Options
 
'Coatl
#1 Posted : 4/4/2009 11:24:06 PM

Teotzlcoatl


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I know I'm all about using botanicals in their natural forms but seeing as Tabernanthe iboga is very hard to obtain in the Americas and Europe it is logical to extract from other botanicals which contain Ibogaine and are easier to obtain and cultivate.

Voacanga africana

Tabernaemontana species

Madagascar Periwinkle

What does it take to extract ibogaine? And who has the skills to do it?

Also.... how about tripping on Yohimbe? Seems like nobody is doing it!!!

WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
'Coatl
#2 Posted : 4/5/2009 6:45:36 PM

Teotzlcoatl


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Come on guys! Nobody is better at chemistry than the people at the Nexus! NOBODY!!! And I'm on alot of forums!

There has gotta be somebody here that at least has an idea?
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
Jorkest
#3 Posted : 4/5/2009 9:08:15 PM

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SWIM has some Yohimbe extract..but hasnt had the chance to use it yet...could you write a little bit about your experience with it?
it's a sound
 
'Coatl
#4 Posted : 4/5/2009 9:14:27 PM

Teotzlcoatl


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Well at higher doses it's very strangely entheogenic... I've never done Iboga, but I'd imagine that being real high on Yohimbe is as close as you will get to the real deal without actually doing it!

I'll write more later...
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
Phlux-
#5 Posted : 4/5/2009 9:16:07 PM

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voacanga africana occurs naturally where swim lives - so swim has plenty seeds. once he ate 50 with like borderline placebo/slightly noticible stimulating fx - then swim tried 80 seeds, same fx but slightly stronger and the mildest of visuals - kinda similar to high dose sceletium or catha edulis or low dose mescaline perhaps. they dont taste 100% nice so swim decided to wait for more info on this plant to become available before testing it further.
They contain voacangine or something like that which is apparently a precursor to ibogaine - theoretically speaking, is it possilble for a kitchen chemist to perform this conversion ?
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...unlike the "blind leading the blind". we are more akin to a group of blind-from-birth people who have all simultaneously been given the gift of sight but have no words or mental processing capabilites to work with this new "gift".

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He who packs ur capsules - controls your destiny.

 
ohayoco
#6 Posted : 4/5/2009 9:23:18 PM
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I suppose I should remind people that ibogaine can kill.

Yohimbine used to be prescribed for people with erectile problems. They don't prescribe it anymore because it wasn't very good at 'that job' and had a lot of unpleasant side effects for some people. SWIM would still like to try some one day but it's recently been made illegal where he lives, as has iboga which he would NEVER try for the same reason as he will never tinker with the tropanes.
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
Infinite I
#7 Posted : 4/5/2009 9:30:47 PM

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Yohimbe makse swims testicles swell up, really uncomfortable for an hour or two, hes done it twice and it happened both times. Isnt sure if hell try it again, probably not.
 
bufoman
#8 Posted : 4/5/2009 9:50:31 PM

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SWIM has gotten some mild stimulant effects from a few mg dose of Yohimbine HCl.

Coatl could you please expand on your comments. What is the dose and the effects? Thanks
 
'Coatl
#9 Posted : 4/5/2009 9:57:32 PM

Teotzlcoatl


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Quote:
They don't prescribe it anymore because it wasn't very good at 'that job' and had a lot of unpleasant side effects for some people.


My boyfriend goes crazy if he takes it... if you know what I mean. Smile

Quote:
SWIM would still like to try some one day but it's recently been made illegal where he lives, as has iboga which he would NEVER try for the same reason as he will never tinker with the tropanes.


Wait what... you wanna do Ibogaine but not Iboga? Or did you mean Yohimbe?
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
bufoman
#10 Posted : 4/5/2009 10:35:57 PM

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"Well at higher doses it's very strangely entheogenic... I've never done Iboga, but I'd imagine that being real high on Yohimbe is as close as you will get to the real deal without actually doing it!"

Are you saying that yohimbe is entheogenic?
 
Jorkest
#11 Posted : 4/5/2009 11:13:17 PM

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i think thats what she is saying
it's a sound
 
ohayoco
#12 Posted : 4/5/2009 11:19:19 PM
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'Coatl wrote:
Wait what... you wanna do Ibogaine but not Iboga? Or did you mean Yohimbe?

Do you think me an idiot? Of course I meant yohimbe!
Yeah maybe yohimbe is good if you like being pounded by an animal! Pleased What I meant was I was told by a professional that it didn't work for everyone and it had side effects. I was only reciting what a friend who used to prescribe it told me.
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
bufoman
#13 Posted : 4/5/2009 11:33:39 PM

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If that is what he is saying then I would like him to explain that statement. What is the dose and what were the effects? Have you tried this or just heard it?
Also what makes you think yohimbine is anything like ibogaine? This seems very unlikely, even if yohimbine has some entheogenic effects (which seems unlikely). ibogaine is a very unique compound both subjectively and pharmacologically.
 
'Coatl
#14 Posted : 4/6/2009 12:44:00 AM

Teotzlcoatl


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Quote:
The stimulus effects of ibogaine were compared with those of yohimbine, an alpha 2-adrenoceptor antagonist, 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine (DOM), a 5-hydroxytryptamine2 (5-HT2) agonist, and lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), a nonspecific 5-HT agonist. Rats were trained with either yohimbine (6 mg/kg), DOM (0.6 mg/kg), or LSD (0.1 mg/kg) vs. no treatment in a two-lever discrimination task. Tests of generalization were then conducted with ibogaine. In yohimbine-trained animals, 39.7% of responses following ibogaine (15 mg/kg) were on the drug-appropriate lever, but this response level was not significantly different from no treatment-appropriate responding. A response distribution that was significantly different from responding under both drug and no treatment training conditions was observed in DOM-trained rats after administration of 15 mg/kg ibogaine. Pizotyline (BC-105) blocked all DOM-appropriate responding produced by ibogaine. In LSD-trained animals, 20 mg/kg ibogaine mimicked LSD. Pizotyline blocked LSD-appropriate responding produced by ibogaine in five of six animals. The present data suggest the involvement of 5-HT2 receptor activity, and the possibility of a 5-HT1A contribution, in the stimulus properties of ibogaine.


Source

I have no idea what the hell the above says... so you guys help me out!

Quote:
Ibogaine has Central nervous system activity, produces hallucinations and has anticonvulsant properties. Plants containing ibogaine are traditionally used in the treatment of fevers and hypertension, as a tonic, stimulant and aphrodisiac. It shares many of it's healing porperties with yohimbine and other related indole alkaloids. It's remarkable ability to stimulate the alpha-2 adrenal receptors produces a longlasting stimulation without the hypertension associated with many other stimulants. Recent research into yohimbine's effect to efficiently combat lethargy and lack of energy in HIV patients and cronic fatigue syndrome may also be applicable to ibogaine.
In it's religious use ibogaine in the form of iboga is consumed in massive quantities. These doses are frequently so high that they would be fatal for a person without tolerance build up. This tolerance is the result of long term consumption of iboga root powder, frequently starting in the mid teens. Hallucinations of contact with dead predecessors are common and form the basis of the traditional religious beliefs and also the basis for ibogaine's use in treatments of drug addictions rooted in psychological problems.


Source

Quote:

Are you saying that yohimbe is entheogenic?


Also please check out the paper- A Study of the Antagonism of Some Indole Alkaloids to the Behavioural Effects of “Ditran'' by Gershon and Bell from the Department of Pharmacology, University of Melbourne, Parkville, Australia.

WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
bufoman
#15 Posted : 4/6/2009 12:53:02 AM

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Ok so Ibogaine may exert some of its stimulant like effects (especially common at low doses) via activity at adrenergic sites. This does not mean that yohimbine has any entheogenic effects. This is unlikely as large doses have been taken without any such reported effects. It seems ibogaine has some effects via adrenergic receptors but it has not been found that yohibine has activity at 5-HT2a or other HA related sites. Yohimbine is believed to have activity at DA sites and may have some MAOI activity. Although to get a significant effect from this pharmacological effect one would likely OD from the adrenergic effects.

ibogaine is a very unique hallucinogen. See TIHKAL or just read any report on its effects. It seems to be a fascinating medicine yet very intense and requires a safe environment.

Alpha2 receptor is an autoreceptor and thus coupled to inhibitory (Gi) second messenger pathways. It also is found post-synaptically where activation leads to cell inhibition. Thus a stimulant effect is obtained if this receptor is blocked as adrenaline activty is enhanced and inhibition is disinhibited throughout neural circuits.
 
'Coatl
#16 Posted : 4/6/2009 12:57:47 AM

Teotzlcoatl


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Ok maybe it's not what you'd called truly psychedelic... but I'd say it's entheogenic and similair to Iboga in some of it's effects (high dose effects of yohimbe being like low dose effects of iboga).

Check this out!

WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
bufoman
#17 Posted : 4/6/2009 1:00:38 AM

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But low doses of ibogaine are not psychedelic or entheogenic but more stimulant psychosis like. I do not see a major comparison b/w the psychedelic effects of these two compounds this would be wonderful if it did exist however it does not appear to. Also high doses of yohimbine are dangerous due to the activity at alpha receptors.

High doses are very dangerous anxiety, panic attacks and Hallucinations have been reported although what pharmacological activity they arise from is unknown. Furthermore what they are like (subjectively is not really clear). They may be due to MAOI activity but it does not appear to be mediated via the same receptors as other hallucinogens such as ibogaine.

One needs to be very careful about taking high doses of yohimbine as it adrenergic activity, DA activity (monoamine) as well as MAOI activity. Thus it can become very dangerous quickly. I believe the therapeutic index is rather low. Does anyone know off hand? I will try to look it up...
 
bufoman
#18 Posted : 4/6/2009 1:11:19 AM

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One just needs to be careful. Yohimbine may have similar HA effects as high doses of MAOIs.
There is a reference of yohimbine being smoked for psychoactive effects:
http://www.inchem.org/do.../pims/pharm/yohimbin.htm

 
bufoman
#19 Posted : 4/6/2009 1:14:57 AM

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Ann Emerg Med. 1985 Oct;14(10):1002-4. Links
Yohimbine: a new street drug.
Apparently Yohimbine was once though of as a street drug.

Linden CH, Vellman WP, Rumack B.
Following the ingestion of an alleged aphrodisiac known as "yo-yo," a 16-year-old girl experienced an acute dissociative reaction accompanied by weakness, paresthesias, and incoordination. Subsequent symptoms included anxiety, headache, nausea, palpitations, and chest pain. Hypertension, tachycardia, tachypnea, diaphoresis, pallor, tremors, and an erythematous rash were noted on physical examination. Serum epinephrine and norepinephrine levels were found to be elevated. Symptoms resolved spontaneously but lasted approximately 36 hours. The ingested substance was identified as yohimbine. The pharmacology of yohimbine and the treatment of yohimbine poisoning are discussed.
 
ohayoco
#20 Posted : 4/6/2009 1:32:08 AM
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Bufoman- loveable as Coatl may be, I have learnt that she is notoriously full of it! No offence Smile

Coatl- Bruce Parry was the subject of the iboga ceremony when he visited the Babongo ('pygmies' if you want to offend them). Check out Bruce Parry's 'Tribe' series, the Babongo episode. It's very touching. He pukes lots, and experiences the 'pain' of someone else who he wronged once, and feels guilty for how he treated her. That's a pretty amazing thing for a drug to do- to make you experience another's emotions.
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
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