LSD is famous for being very similar to an episode of schizophrenic psychosis: in fact, one of the few ways that scientists have been able to study LSD over the last fifty years is by claiming they are studying schizophrenia and dosing subjects with LSD to create schizophrenic symptoms.

My question is: what parts of the LSD experience are like the experience of a schizophrenic? Presumably it's not he visuals, but maybe it's the thought process? Or is it something else entirely?

Blessings
~ND

Supposedly an LSD experiment from 1955. An interesting clip to say the least.

Like the video, havent seen that one. The dramatic 50s movie music really cracks me up lol.

People who have talked to me about the differences between schizophrenia and psychedelic experience have assured me that they are nothing alike subjectively. Schizophrenia is not at all pleasant, from my understanding, so to do research on LSD under the guise of research for people who have a mentally crippling disorder and actually need help seems rather insulting to me.

The thing about this type of research is that they are starting with the assumption that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia and move forward from there.

The army and CIA wanted this stuff as chemical weaponry and many psychiatrists saw it as a way to induce and study psychosis. The idea that one could have valid introspective experiences is probably not even on the researcher's mental roadmap.

Clearly this guy is having an ecstatic experience despite being badgered by the interviewer the whole time, but the interviewer never seems to allow at all for the idea that he is having a valid experience. Sort of like the way that anthropologists often have started with the assumption that shamanism is some sort of aberrant human behavior and represents some sort of psychosis.

Think of how few people had ever done LSD at that point. The numbers were probably in the dozens or hundreds.

I found it quite moving to see someone opened up to the depths of the mystery so completely.

As a high functioning schizophrenic I can tell you some of the things that are akin to LSD. However, a whole lot of it really isn't.

It's interesting because often when I take psychedelics I can distinguish my rational mind, from my schizophrenic mind, and my psychedelic mind. So these really are two different levels of cognition between being schizophrenic and being on say LSD.

The delusional beliefs aren't far from it. You know the whole you're walking down a street see a rainbow rain puddle and knee-jerk reaction think "I'm god". Which is arguably not a delusion depending on your philosophical beliefs however it is a strange catalyst to form such a thought. However the majority of the positive silly fun delusions from LSD do not occur in schizophrenia and if they do, they are often very 'severely' implicated through delusions and not from the cosmic breath of the universe shedding it's light directly to your mind. More like a voice in your head yelling at you to warn people that the end of the world is coming and if you do not obey this voice you will be slayed and sent to hell.

I suppose it is best explained through the vehicle of a "bad trip". Schizophrenia usually involves a lot of paranoia, but not the kind where if you're used to tripping you can turn a trip around... That everything is after you to kill you, rob you, hurt you, make you stand trial for things you've never done, kind of stuff. Every movement, thought, or action you are making, have made, or will make is being analyzed and you are to be punished for it and there's nothing you can do about it. Because the voices in your head are your own but they yell to kill yourself on a regular basis and there's no way to control them because as much as they are you, they most definitely don't appear to be. And because you have these thoughts that are being monitored you are to be punished, and somehow it always seems like you are punished for them. A lot of suffering. You know, paying for all of your 'sins' and being attacked by vicious entities is sort of a parallel. Except often in my experience the 'sins' I am paying for aren't even real.

A similar thing is depending on the dosage you can forget you are on a psychedelic substance and just be consumed by the experience even while walking around talking with people. Schizophrenia is a lot like this as well, psychosis in general is that by definition. Having no idea that you are psychotic and not believing that you have an illness is a HUGE problem for people with this disorder. For a trip though its not really a big deal because when you reach that level the discomfort from taking the substance is essentially gone and you just experiencing at that point.

Another parallel is probably the indecision. Like when there are a lot of things you want to do on a trip and you just don't know where to begin(unless your already in the flow). Psychosis is similar, but like that in real life.

LSD can have you think very clearly about your life, or be totally confused about the idea of having a personal existence. Schizophrenia very seldomly offers any of that clarity, I've really only experienced it by taking psychedelics. Many even well functioning in society schizophrenics do not know their preferred sexual orientation, when things have occurred in their lives, if the things they remember occurring ever actually happened, etc. Except 12 hours later we(Sz's) still don't know.

Schizophrenics are highly empathetic though. There's a good reason why too. Often when someone says something happened to them or is happening to them, the Sz observer believes it is happening to them as well. Problem is we are often confused about whats going on in general so we cannot react in real time to help people often. Which is similar to the LSD experience and that interconnectedness stuff.


I would like to clarify some things. LSD is not the only model used to mimic psychosis. PCP, amphetamines, and many other substances have and are being used. PCP is a really good model apparently for a few of the symptoms. Interestingly LSD is kind of well known for inducing temporary to lasting psychosis in SOME high risk people(not a common demographic but keep in mind 1/100 people are schizophrenic). I don't mean that as propaganda either, its pretty well documented. My psych never told me not to do mushrooms, or other psychedelics she specifically said, No LSD, and avoid cannabis.

The drug models don't mimic all of the symptoms very well but they do mimic the positive symptoms pretty well. There are both positive and negative symptoms if your interested you can learn more about them here - http://www.mayoclinic.co...00196/DSECTION=symptoms.

I made a thread to dispel some of the myths about mental illness a while back it might be worth a gander if you'd like to read it.
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=35699
Interestingly one of the people arguing against the existence of mental illness(hard to believe...) who I will not name ended up becoming psychotic a year or so later. Last I heard they were in treatment and doing well though, blessings to them. Wish they didn't have to learn about it the hard way...

Yes, I dont really think LSD would model schizophrenic psychosis all that well.

I think a better way to for psychologists to scientifically experiment with LSD would be on people who have social anger/aggression problems, as a treatment to this behavioral disorder. Seriously, I dont know how someone could take a beautiful substance like LSD and not become more peaceful and do some serious reflecting about their life. They would probably look back at all the people they have hurt and have an overwhelming sense of guilt and want to do better. Eventually the old behavior would probably resurface, so LSD treatment would need to be continued.

In the 60s acid era it was noted how half a million "kids" attended Woodstock and how everyone got along, but then take a room of 50 adults with some liqour and a fight is inevitable.

This actually happened with a what was close friend of mine at the time, but with mushrooms instead of LSD. He has multiple personality disorder and is untreated for it. He refuses to get help.

However, upon taking mushrooms one day, he claims that he felt nothing but overwhelming guilt and disgustingness at the way he has treated everyone in the past. To this day, that strong feeling of guilt sticks with him, and before this experience guilt was not a known emotion to him.

Interesting how it triggered that and caused it to stick with him, even after not using any psychs for a long time after.

Wow, thank you InMotion, that is more information then I would have dared hope for when I started this. Many thanks.

If I may continue to pick your brain...

To the best of my knowledge I do not have schizophrenia (although with a 1% probability, and some weird memories from childhood maybe I do...), so I wouldn't dream to telling you how you're head worked, but in my research, one of the clearest parallels between the schizophrenic and psychedelic experiences has been over activity in the brains pattern-recognition mechanism.

Reports and case studies of paranoid schizophrenics that I have read will make reference to this: for example, one patient saw the organization of chairs in his psychiatrists waiting room as deeply significant and that it conveyed information about the intentions of the government.

That sort of patterned-thinking is a hallmark of the LDS experience (and PCP, or so claims a friend who smoked PCP-laced cannabis and also saw deep significance in some random chairs). Many trip reports of high-dose LSD trips I have read touch on how the user will see God in the organization of a tree, or in bad circumstances, see suspicious behavior in otherwise innocuous actions by friends or strangers. Again, this kind of delusions is, to my knowledge, pretty common in paranoid schizophrenia.

Am I on the right track, or am I (like person on bad acid) simply reading patterns where none exist?

I'm currently doing a research project at college about the effects of altering the serotonin system on mental health and emotional wellness, so any and all information that anyone on The Nexus has is deeply appreciated.

Blessings (and good mental health)
~ND

That's really interesting.

Can you give specific examples of psychotic thought patterns and behaviors that you were left with after this (obviously) catastrophic bad trip?

Could you also elaborate on the nature of the bad trip? Presumably coming down from cocaine probably had a lot to do with it. And I assume that the diazepam didn't do anything to calm you down?

Blessings
~ND