I hope it's acceptable to post 2 threads at the same times.
Anyways, in the psilocybin report I just typed up, I mentioned effects that were notably similar to drinking kava.
After typing that, I thought I remembered reading about kavalactone-like compounds being present in some mushrooms.
Does anyone have any information or knowledge of this, or similar experiences at least?
Searching turned up nothing notable.

In my experience high doses of Kava can induce some LSD-like effects.
One rather memorable night involved drinking a large quantity of alcohol-free extract and the walls started breathing in an interesting way, and music became very intense.

I don't know a whole lot about the pharmacology of kavalactones, but it's possible they might also induce feelings of existential well being as well.

Peace
~ND

I've seen something similar after, like you said, a lot of kava.
But, I'm actually asking if mushrooms contain, or can contain, chemicals that act in the same way as kavalactones, either due to having the same MOA, or actually being chemically similar to the compounds found in kava.
I remember reading "mushrooms contain compounds similar to those found in kava" but I don't remember where, or even when.

Well, the major kavalactones that I know of are:

- Yangonin, which has a high affinity for the CB1 receptor, giving it a cannabis-like effect,
- Kavain, which is an axiolytic, although no one knows how it works, (it may act as a temporary selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it's been shown to inhibit the uptake of norepinephrene).
- Desmethoxyyangonin, which is a reversible MAO-B inhibitor and can trigger the release of dopamine.

There are also three more, I'm less familiar with.

- Dihydrokavin, also an anxiolytic, again, I couldn't find anything that pointed to a known mechanism of action.
- Methysticin - Stimulant, mind euphoriant. No clue how it works.
- Dihydromethysticin - Sedative, muscle relaxant. Again, no idea how it works.

I couldn't find anything about kavalactones in psilocybin mushrooms. I would hazard that the Yangonin, which is a CB1 agonist, may create somewhat psychedelic effects, in the same way that for some, cannabis can act as a psychedelic.

Alternatively, maybe you just had a particularly relaxed mushroom experience. Unless the dose so is inordinately high, I don't find kava itself to be particularly profound. The experience is no different then a particularly relaxed evening at home with friends.
I have a hard time imagining that there was some distinctly kava-like dimension to the experience that couldn't be explained without an appeal to pharmacology.

Maybe I made something up again, I don't know but I remember reading at least a paragraph of info somewhere about this... I've been searching for the article, thread, whatever it was, with no luck at all.
Thanks for the info on kavalactones though, they are something I should read more about, very interesting.
Also, I wouldn't call kava 'trips' themself profound, but I have definitely had great thinking sessions after drinking kava. It helps get my mind off everything else long enough to have a clear, open mind.
Which might be, probably is, responsible for the 'kava-like' effect noted.

Psychoactives really are a trip

I thought I had also read something about a mushroom with kavalactones or something similar in them so I started looking through some books and this is what I found.

In "Hallucinogenic and Poisonous Mushroom Field Guide" by Gary P. Menser p. 41

"Gymnopilus spectabilis
...The western species that have been analyzed have so far not been proved to be psychoactive. European species are also latent or inactive. East coast and Japanese species are psychoactive. Recent research at the University of Washington has established the presence of bis-noryangonin. This compound is an analog of yangonin, a weak psychoactive substance found in Kava Kava (Piper methysticum). It is not known if bis-noryangonin is psychoactive, but it is doubtful since it occurs in edible species. The analysis was done on western species, which haven't been reported to be psychoactive. So the active principle remains unknown"

In "Hallucinogenic Plants of North America" by Jonathan Ott p. 7-8

"GYMNOPILUS SPECTABILIS (Fr.) Smith
...HALLUCINOGENIC AGENTS: Recent work at the University of Washington has established the presence of bis-noryangonin in this species, in G. decurrens, and in other species of Gymnopilus. This compound has also been detected in Pholiota squarroso-adiposa, Polyporus hispidus, and Polyporus schweinitzii. There is a history of hallucinogenic poisonings resulting from accidental ingestion of G. spectabilis (23, 147, 181). Bis-noryangonin is an analog of yangonin, a psychoactive principle of kava kava (Piper methysticum).

HISTORY OF ETHNIC USE: Only recently has the toxicity of this species been discovered, and it is unlikely that it has been widely used as a recreational drug. Indeed, the taste is so bitter, that it is difficult to imagine people accidentally ingesting a sufficient quantity to produce toxic effects...

...This mushroom is called "o-warai-take" in Japan, meaning "big laughter mushroom." Cases of intoxication with this species are said to be frequent in Japan, although it has not been specified whether these intoxications are intentional or accidental. It has been suggested this mushroom may represent the "maitake" (dance-[inducing] mushroom) of the Konjaku Monogatari. One of the tales in this eleventh century compilation describes a group of nuns and woodcutters who, having eaten "maitake," "danced and danced for hours against their will, and they fell to laughing." For further information, see: R. G. Wasson, "Mushrooms and Japanese Culture" and R. Imazeki, "Japanese Mushroom Names," The Transactions of the Asiatic Society of Japan, Third Series, Vol. XI, 1973."

Ahh, beautiful words, thank you.
It's great to know I might have actually read this somewhere, though my - sorry, my friend's - experience wasn't actually caused by kava-like compounds, but were only perceived as similar to a kava experience.


Add. - Wikipedia turned this up:

"This mushroom has subspecies which contain the hallucinogen psilocybin. Specimens found in Korea or the eastern part of US are more likely to contain psilocybin than similar mushrooms found in the western part of the US or Europe. This mushroom contains bis-noryangonin and hispidine, which are structurally related to alpha-pyrones found in kava.[5]"

^ Hatfield, G.M.; Brady, L.R. (1969). "Occurrence of bis-noryangonin in Gymnopilus spectabilis". Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences 58 (10): 1298–1299. doi:10.1002/jps.2600581039. PMID 5388695.



Additional research(internet search) on the chemical bis-noryangonin led me to find this, at http://www.entheogenrevi...mple%20Issue%20small.pdf , pages 3 and 4, Gymnopilus Chemistry

"...STAMETS points out that, with some of the species in the genus
Gymnopilus, “There may be compounds other than psilocybin, but
closely related, that potentiate the experiences of the consumer”
(STAMETS 1996). Small amounts of the active compound baeocystin
(.02% to .05%) have been found in G. purpuratus (GARTZ 1996). Of
G. spectabilis, STAMETS (citing TANAKA et al. 1993) notes that recent
studies of Japanese mushrooms detected no psilocybin, “but identified a new hallucinogen, which they described as belonging to a
group of ‘neurotoxic’ oligoisoprenoids, with depolarizing activity that
was demonstrated on rodent neurons. (No human bioassays were
conducted.)” (STAMETS 1996). OTT notes that bis-noryangonin (a
chemical apparently structurally similar to the active pyrones found
in Piper methysticum) has been found in G. spectabilis (OTT 1996,
citing HATFIELD & BRADY 1969; HATFIELD & BRADY 1971; and OTT
1976). However, JOCHEN GARTZ points out that this compound is
inactive (GARTZ 1996)..."