I'm just wondering, I've been doing allot of heavy thinking surrounding the most available treatment modality for addiction, at least afaik in the states.
I recently realized that although I'm NOT.a12 step adherent, having been in recovery, sorry-treatment-got over ten years with little progress, that the treatment was keeping me sick.
I'm in a methadone clinic on downtown Portland, nuff said?
Anyway,i want to know if your experience has been similar to mine, and if so what DID work?
This post is simulated by many recent deaths in treatment, including that last Saturday, of a dear friends lover, who hanged himself, for her to find (he was 27, she 24), because he feared the same thing i did, for ten years, that i was"un-recoverable"and that i had done moral failing. I have done the 12 steps, and had no"awakening"only pain.
5 MEO woke me up.
Bill W,,AA's founder, had his, and his vision of AA, on acid, add part of a research project on it's efficacy to CURE addiction.
I do not believe addiction it's a disease, especially a special one that can be prayed away. I've been lied to,i feel. Addiction is a syndrome-type disorder, affecting reward centers usually dedicated to survival, related as well to ocd, at least in some of the population.
I'm drowning in recovery, trying to hold up those around me who also ate going down, and I need
This is a major crisis for me, my gut tells me I'm flin doing right, but i don't have support.
The only service that the clinic provided the girl I mentioned was to hold her dose until she saw her counselor, who just had her sign a safety contact, absolving the clinic of liability if she too suicided which she had indicated ideation of.
It was up to me, an unqualified, emotionally unstable person, to make all the calls, to insurance,DHS and county services,etc to get her help.
Dammit,i can't take this death anymore., and i feel totally alone. I was the only one there to help that poor girl, and with my co-dependency, have tip draw a very strong boundary, and unfortunately, that has left me on one side of the "thin line beyond which you can't fake", but alone, and none to help me put together the pieces that a young mans suicide, who i didn't even know, left me with.
My path includes apprehending novel knowledge of depression and addiction, through pursuing a degree towards a research position, and writing my account, hopefully bring of assistance in designing treatment options, including pharma options.
Out was

I'm glad your reaching out I'm sorry to hear about your friends suicide. Its very big of you to step up and help her whiole your struggling yourslef.
My relationship with he 12 steps. Whew, that's one I can write about for pages but Ill sum it up.

I've been in recovery twice in my life. First time I was 20 years old and just released from serving 18 months in military prison, aka, the Brig, the second was about 5 years ago. I am 41 now.

I've had an on again off again addiction to Opiates my whole life. I was clean and sober this past time for 18 months. Oddly enough that's he same amount of time I stayed clean my first run in AA. For me I got this point that I saw that my addiction were compulsions focalized and that after a year clean I could see these compulsions come out in other ways. Buying things on Line late at night, sex, even spirituality became a form of compulsion.
Granted these thing are much less harmful than opiates but they still felt quite the same. The underlying problem was, I wasn't happy, I wasnt content in my own skin, I hated myself.

The drugs, the shopping, the fancy luxury cars, all this was to fill this void inside me but it was un fill-able. So I came to a point that I was seeing crystal clear and it was against the current of 12 step programs.

For one, I always was open to my at the time sponsor that I would give total abstinence a go for 18 months but I would use hallucinogens again because I feel they are a positive helpful part of healing. He told me I would loose my clean time if I did and I accepted that even though I don' agree with it. But hey, its their club, they make the rules, its not for me to try and force my beliefs on AA.

2- I never adhered to their once an addict always an addict and there was no distinction between any substances and their usages. I've never had a problem with cannabis or alcohol and still do not. For me it was always opiates that crossed the line into a life un manageable.

3- I feel labeling ones self an addict every day and in your own perceptions of self are negative and harmful. I'm not an addict anymore than I am a house painter because I once painted my house. It was a life situation my being. I am me, a person dealing with addiction but seeing oneself as an addict for life only added to the core problem of self esteem issues and not feeling "normal".

At 18 months I saw that I didn't address the root of the problem I only traded a more harmful compulsion for ones that would appear harmless but they were the same thing. I saw that I was tormenting myself by not being who I was. I do like to socially drink, I do enjoy a spliff at days end and they don't cause me any more hardship than buying 60,000 dollars cars, flat screen televisions and endless do dads on ebay. So constantly feeling different or abnormal by avoiding situations and friends because I am an "addict" began to cause more harm than it helped.

I consciously decided to drink and smoke dmt and cannabis and left the rooms of AA. I had a knee surgery around my second year of being out of treatment and fell back into opiate addiction but never at the same degree it once was. I kicked it and made some drastic life changes. I sold all my belongings, all my material items, home, car, furniture, business, everything and went to Peru for 9 months and lived with the Shipibo in the Rainforest drinking ayahuasca in ceremony for an extended period. It was there that I healed, there that I faced my demons and surrendered to what is.
That time period was much more healing and useful for me than my time in recovery.

I need to be careful as I'm not condoning or recommending my choices to anyone. For some AA is the best way to have a fruitful happy life and millions of people heal themselves in the rooms. It just wasn't for me.

In the end we must all open the hurt locker and have a good rummage around. Go to the root core of the problem that results in compulsions and addictions and heal. How one does this is different and personal. People need to find their own way and walk through the fire. When that happens life takes on new meaning but it takes radical self honesty and courage to accomplish. Some have it in them this life some do not, but that's the defining characteristic between a person dry and a person healed.

I am grateful for the 12 steps program as I know I wouldn't have been able to stay clean and come to this level of understanding without it. Its just not for me. I'm not perfect, I still slip here and there but I don't hate on myself when i do. I recognize that when I am ready I will change it and in the meantime feeling guilt or shame only adds to the problem and makes it harder to stop the cycle.

I'm more open now and let go of caring what people think about me. This is why I can be fully honest about these topics. I don't care what people think, not here and not in real life. I am me and I love me, flaws and all. When you gain self love and forgiveness the game changes but its not easy to do.

Best of luck on your path.

I have never come across the 12 step program so i looked it up. It looks a bit too born again christian for me personally but if it works for some and gives them a better quality of life why not?

I think people become addicts for differing reasons so there is no hard and fast way of overcoming these problems.

Honesty with yourself, support from friends and family, quite a bit of luck and a lot of time have helped me. But at the end of the day the person who wants to stop is on their own. No one else can get you out of this situation but yourself.

I have seen a lot of folk on this forum treat the methadone reduction treatments with disdain but i think it can let catch your breath and give you the time to take stock. I know it"s a mofo to get off of but it is possible to reduce down to .5ml if needed. Over a period of nearly 20 years i have done subutex reductions (didn"t get on with it for some reason), lofexidine detox after 5ml methadone (suffered like crazy after the britlofex wore off and was clean for 3 years but still craved mentally) and done cold turkey off of heroin a few times- once followed by a naltrexone course.

I havent craved opiates for near 3 years, although i am still on 4ml capsules of methadone each day. Maybe i don"t crave anymore because i have become more at home with my faults and so more contented. No ones perfect and to be quite honest anyone who claims to be is just plain irritating. I still get depressed every now and then but now when i am upset the last thing i would want to do is turn to opiates as it would make things a thousand times worse and there are already too many missed opportunities in my life.
You are on your own brother (but at the same time not alone). Take strength in that knowledge. I really wish i could give you better advice apart from the time,luck and self love thing.
With my past i am probly not the best person to listen to. Also forgive me if i have just stated the obvious.

a good 50% of people who attend 12 step meetings aren't actually addicts.
And most of those meetings are corrupted by new age christians anyway.

It works for some people, though, it doesn't fit my lifestyle.
Doesn't mean its useless though. The guys who actually wrote the 12 steps, are genius. Seriously.

Sure, religion is bullshit, but it doesn't mean the teachings are bullshit, just the teachers teaching them, are bullshitting you.


If you actually THINK critically of what these prayers are saying, instead of just chanting them along with the sheep, They actually make a whole lot of sense.

Spirituality is an inward journey.

--

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

I appreciate yall responses. it seems that although we are on different paths, our experience with healiong has been quite similar. The realizations Ive had surrounding accountability, self awareness and "recovery" have come from within me, despite my "treatment"
There are so many facets to the question of addiction, so many substances, sources, cultural issues etc.
We need to develop modalities where a person can be met where they are at so to speak.
I plan on doing an iboga tx soon, at home, after careful preparation and research with a qualified individual assissting and watching out.
Psychedelics were my route out, but I did not touch them the entire duration of my heroin addiction, from 1992, to 2011.
Pretty much immediately ended my b.s. though, when "I" died from 5meo (you know what I mean)
Wish i'd have known.
Ive been talking ALOT to fellow addicts lately, what do they need, etc, what can help them? Abstinece is not the be all and end all. I do drugs, I learned how to have a relationship that does not include abuse. it includes different boundaries for different substances. I do NOT advocate this for others. I began my journey with drugs not as self medication and not out of social pressure or need to fit in. I sought them. Im a die hard(ly) hedonist, I admit it. I also know how to respect the substances I use now. I love DMT, but since I respect God's law far more thatn man's, I do not f with it in anything other than a spiritual manner. But last weekend, after finishing all my papers, essays and finals studying, I got high, to relax and wind down, with a xanax and beer, I got wasted, dude.
I dont do that stuff often though. Daily herbs, bi weekly to monthly psilocybin microdose and spice before the shit hits the fan is my personal prescription. In fact I really wish I hadnt poured my last extract down the drain by accident last weekend, now I have to wait another month to get paid to make more, and I could use some Engineer ( thats my name for the elves) support.
Ugh, Im processing guys, sorry if Im rambling, I appreciate you leting me.

Im thinking of trying to help develop a new type of meeting, where people dont feel moralized theres no dogma, where we just talk, together. What do yall think? Any ideas? How would I go about it? Part of my stuff includes the fact that Im homeless right now, I am literally penniless, I cant rent chruch space, dont want to do it online, but I want to help, and want to BE helped at the same time.

Edited by OM-Absolutely no discussion or attempts to meet up in person is allowed on the Nexus forum! Here is your warning.

Yes the serenity prayer is awesome, like I said, a spritual awkening WAS integral to MY recovery, but it came from me injecting 5MEO DMT into my vein. I didnt know what I was doing, I was accidentally enlightened. But it worked, Im here.
I just dont really understand what you mean, Ive been to a lot of meetings from ones with 6 people to ones with 100, mostly NA, but some AA, and Ive never seen to my knowledge, unaddicted people.

Yes spirituality is inward, thats kinda the whole point of it, but the spirituality of AA has lost its sacrement which in the original lit was integral. It was LSD-25. Now its crap coffee and cigarettes.

I just think I missed your point man, sorry, it feels contradictory or something to me, but Im exhausted emotionally and physically.

I'm in recovery, and have been for coming up on three & a half years now. I credit NA with with where I'm at today. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the program & fellowship. With said, there is a lot in NA that I disagree with, and I left the problem around two years ago. The steps really work wonders though, and I really need to do more to incorporate/continue to work through them. I feel & have found that psychedelics can be very beneficial in recovery, and that's not accepted in any 12-step fellowship that I've seen.

i took their test and it said i am an "alcoholic". i was worried at the time, but now i find it laughable, considering how infrequently i drink, and how little of an addictive personality i have.

also south park

(rather than start a new thread,i want to post this.it was intended as a stand alone post, hence tbd language,)
I need some advice, and help.
Now I'm not a professional, anything really, in terms of getting paid, I'm not knocking our advocating anything, but because of another spate of tragedy, death touching down nearby, and unnecessarily,I've been doing a lot of thinking.
I'm in opiate addiction treatment-big news,i know-and so are the majority of people i know. None of us have access to any place where we feel safe, un-judged, to, if nothing else, air out issues, and process shit.
The only phrase i like from 12 steps is the one about"experience-strength-and hope.", which kinda seems contradictory to the powerless doctrine but whatever.
I'm not trying to start a bitch session re; 12s.
What i do want, is to get some ideas on how to start a new, non-fellowship, an anti-fellowship, if you will, with no dogma, no nothing, no requirement for clean time to speak, maybe voted in of some ones too high,idk. I just want to include everyone who is struggling to feel welcome. None of the folks i know can deal with thedogma and doctrine of 12 steps (again, this is NOT a12 step debate, please) that's how out is, we use drugs. For the first thing, many of us are on methadone, and the advice i get is to keep it secret. Really? Good basis for honest recovery?
Another thing is that people need to be met where they are, and many people need help are on crisis,etc. While using and are too intimidated to reach out.
So yeah,i want practical knowledge, how should i go about organizing this,i have no financial resources i can allocate,i live on student loans.
Anyone?
I don't want to post another long post that gets no attn, again, I'm prolly in the wrong place. Pointers in the right direction?

no actually, you got exactly my point!

It is just crap coffee and cigarettes! excellent analogy heheh. My inner journey was also indirectly fueled with psychedelics, not AA.


I was just trying to say (albeit contradictory) that I could see the good in the program.


However, the meetings are of course run by alcoholics. So the inner sacrament is covered up in so many layers of ass backwards guilt and regret... but what can you expect? heh