DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2854 Joined: 16-Mar-2010 Last visit: 01-Dec-2023 Location: montreal
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Thought this might be of interest to some. Here's the article (video link below text): THE DOWNSIDE OF HIGH"Teenagers who start smoking marijuana before the age of sixteen are four times more likely to become schizophrenic. That's the startling conclusion of some of the world's top schizophrenia experts, whose research is featured in the new documentary The Downside of High. The scientists' groundbreaking work on the connection between marijuana and mental illness also reveals that, for all young adults, smoking marijuana nearly doubles the risk of developing recurring psychosis, paranoia and hallucinations - the hallmarks of schizophrenia. Ben was first introduced to marijuana while at a high school in BC. His increasingly psychotic behaviour led to a year-long hospitalization. The Downside of High, directed and written by Bruce Mohun, tells the stories of three young people from British Columbia who believe - along with their doctors - that their mental illness was triggered by marijuana use. All three spent months in hospital psychiatric wards, and still wage a battle with their illness. Today's super-potent pot may be a big part of the problem. Modern growing techniques have dramatically increased the amount of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana - ramping up the threat to the developing teenage brain. But there's an intriguing twist to the story: in the process of cultivating more potent strains of pot, growers have also been breeding out a little-known ingredient called cannabidiol that seems to buffer the effects of THC. So today's high-octane pot actually contains a double-whammy - more psychosis-producing THC, and less of the protective CBD or cannabidiol. Tyler was 14 years old when he first started experiencing psychotic episodes. For many people, smoking marijuana is not a big deal - it is, after all, the most widely-used illegal drug in the world. The Downside of High provides a scientific perspective on some of the little-known and little discussed risks of marijuana, particularly for teenagers. The Downside of High is directed and written by Bruce Mohun, story-produced by Maureen Palmer, and produced by Sue Ridout for Dreamfilm Productions of Vancouver." And the show: NATURE OF THINGSI am curious to see what people think of this. I am half way through it and it seems well researched and informative, and most importantly, very credible. Cheers, JBArk JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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this is not anything new really..but what people always fail to discuss is how many of these people are already started to feel the onset of some kind of personality disorder and are drawn to mood alterting substances like cannabis becasue of this..and simply later exhibit symptoms of something that was already present whether the cannabis was there or not. People smoke way to much cannabis though. So many people smoke all day long every single day. I can hardley imagine why that would be healthy. There is no balace. Also I dont like the cannabis that is around today. I dont smoke daily and I cant handle that stuff..it feels sketchy and speedy. Especially the sativas. I would prefer to grow some pure indica and pure ruderalis. A pure cannabis ruderalis strain is something I am looking to grow in the future..like ditch weed sort of stuff man. I like the sedation sometimes and the medicinal effects..the stone from cannabis is nice but the high is the part I dont really enjoy too often.. If I want to trip I will just eat some mushrooms.. Long live the unwoke.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1817 Joined: 22-Jan-2009 Last visit: 04-Aug-2020 Location: Riding the Aurora Borealis
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This is something that's pretty close to home for me. I'll definitely watch it and give it some thought.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1055 Joined: 21-Nov-2011 Last visit: 15-Oct-2021
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I don't care for drug documentaries such as this because they never address the relavant question, which is "Do the positive effects of cannabis outweigh the negative effects?" to which the answer is almost always yes. Or "Do the positive effects of cannabis make it worth the risk of certain negative side effects?" There is a bias inherent in the way the information is presented because the researcher seems to assume (from the posted passage) that psychosis and hallucinations are negative side-effects, whereas they are the purpose of drug use in most other cases (and in my case). I'd also be curious as to where these statistics come from, because if they just come from a survey or medical questionnaire, then how could you believe a person who claims to experience psychotic side-effects if you also believe that this person may be paranoid. "I might be going crazy" is something that a paranoid person is more likely to say than a genuinely crazy person, in my opinion. I just doubt that a person who actually has schizophrenia and happens to smoke weed would testify that the experiences are similar. To say that "because weed causes your perceptions to change over time the effects are like schizophrenia" misrepresents both weed and schizophrenics. Also, I don't think it's hard to understand why a person who habitually participates in an illegal activity would be paranoid for reasons that are not drug-induced. Such people may be highly cautious. That is justified and thus is not paranoia. Such caution is necessary to keep out of trouble with the law. Every day I am thankful that I was introduced to psychedelic drugs.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1310 Joined: 27-Sep-2012 Last visit: 01-Feb-2022 Location: Lost in space
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Perhaps teenagers who develop schizophrenia are four times more likely to smoke marijuana? Be an adult only when necessary.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 338 Joined: 17-Apr-2012 Last visit: 09-Apr-2016 Location: USA
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Mr.Peabody wrote:Perhaps teenagers who develop schizophrenia are four times more likely to smoke marijuana? A very valid point, one which I can't exactly see there being any means to prove/disprove unfortunately. A dramatic shift approaches...
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3207 Joined: 19-Jul-2011 Last visit: 02-Jan-2023
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1817 Joined: 22-Jan-2009 Last visit: 04-Aug-2020 Location: Riding the Aurora Borealis
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I watched this, and I always do my best to stay objective with this sort of subject matter.
I'm obviously an advocate for freedom of choice, especially where our ability to alter our consciousness is concerned.
Now that said, I did see some interesting points raised. For one, the fact that marijuana is much more potent than it was just ten or fifteen years ago. Not just by a small margin, but by a huge leap. THC levels can be as high as 20% or more. Something jamie spoke of, the odd feeling it gives him, especially the sativas. They feel unnatural, because growers have altered the plant to produce more THC.
That in itself could, at the very least, contribute to this kind of situation. One of the people in the documentary did say that the vast majority of people who use cannabis, even these crazy potent strains, will most likely only get enjoyment from it and experience little to no lasting side effects. It's fairly benign, and that needs to be acknowledged.
I think this correlation needs to be acknowledged as well, however. That certain substances can and do trigger latent mental illnesses. Those who might be more predisposed to certain mental illnesses, I feel, should be warned about the potential negative outcomes.
A lot of people who are pro cannabis attempt to down play the seriousness of the plant. People can have profound experiences with this plant. It should be taken a little more seriously than the current view of it is. People claiming "it's not even a drug". It is a powerful drug, and medicine, and should be treated as such.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3207 Joined: 19-Jul-2011 Last visit: 02-Jan-2023
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Dioxippus wrote:For one, the fact that marijuana is much more potent than it was just ten or fifteen years ago. Not just by a small margin, but by a huge leap. THC levels can be as high as 20% or more. Something jamie spoke of, the odd feeling it gives him, especially the sativas. They feel unnatural, because growers have altered the plant to produce more THC. http://medicalmarijuana.procon....rs.php?questionID=000336Quote:The highest tested sample had 22.04% THC (domestic) and 27.30% THC (nondomestic). The highest tested sample ever tested between 1975 and 2009 had 33.12% THC (domestic) and 37.20% THC (nondomestic). http://www.drugscience.org/Petition/C4I.htmlQuote:After a careful consideration of historical records, reports of recent potency estimates, and the practice of marijuana smokers to self-adjust their dose, the authors reached the following conclusion.
"While it may be true that sinsemilla is more widely available than 10 or 15 years ago, its potency has not changed significantly from the 2.4 to 9.5 percent THC materials available in 1873-1974, or the five to 14 percent sinsemilla of 1975. The range of potencies available then (marijuana at 0.1% to 7.8% THC, averaging 2.0% to 5.0% THC by 19750 was approximately the same as reported now. With such a range, the evidence simply cannot support the argument by Cohen that marijuana is "ten or more times more potent than the product smoked ten years ago." And to say that marijuana potency has increased 1,400 percent since any date in history is patent nonsense."
"It is not legitimate to imply that average low potencies represent the full range of potencies available in reality. Neither is it valid to cite the low end of the range then as a baseline to compare the high end of the range now. The claimed baseline for THC content in the early 1970's would appear to be too low, probably because confiscated stored police samples were utilized; and this low baseline makes the claimed difference in potency appear to be greater than it has been in reality."(31) (emphasis in original)
An examination of the government's actual potency data (rather than what they have reported in press releases) was conducted by Dr. John Morgan of the City University of New York Medical School, and indicated that the finding was based on a comparison of the highest THC percentage in the 1980's with the lowest percentage of the 1970's. Also, the data from the 1970's was derived from a sample of decaying, imported Mexican marijuana composed of leaf and flower; it was compared to recently harvested, domestically grown marijuana flowers. Finally, marijuana of similar potency to 1980's standards was available during the 1970's. (32)
Morgan's debunking of marijuana potency findings relies on data presented by the NIDA potency project at the University of Mississippi. This data shows that the arithmetic average potency of domestic cannabis tested by the project has ranged from 1.5% to 4.75% THC. (33) In 1973 Gabriel Nahas reports that the THC content of drug-type cannabis ranges from 3.4 to 4.8%. (34) In 1975, before the emergence of high quality domestic marijuana cultivation in the U.S., John Langer of the DEA reports that:
"Marihuana produced in the United States is considered inferior because of the low concentration of psychoactive ingredients, which varies between 0.2 and 2.0 percent. Marihuana of Mexican origin is known to be slightly stronger. The variety known as Jamaican ganja, which consists primarily of the flowers and breacts, has a THC content of 4 to 8 percent."(35)
These citations from Nahas and the DEA independently demonstrate that a broad range of marijuana potencies was available in the 1970's, and provide additional evidence that assertions otherwise are without factual or scientific foundation.
It is important to understand the fallacy of the increased potency argument for several reasons.
1) It is just wrong. It is factually incorrect.
2) It is ironic that advocates of marijuana prohibition claim prior research is inadequate to explain the effects of this new, high potent marijuana when as explained in section 3, most of the contemporaneous research was later criticized for using extremely unrealistic potencies.
3) It is convenient. The hypothesis that marijuana is now much more potent than in the past provides convincing support for the assertion that any use of the drug is drug abuse. Rhetoric about marijuana potency substitutes for scientific findings in efforts to legitimize existing policy.
4) Most importantly, the scientific research reported in section 3 renders the potency question irrelevant to an assessment of the acute and chronic effects of marijuana use. Remember, in the mid 1980's when this hypothesis gained popularity, the dominant research paradigm was (incorrectly) based on cell membrane perturbation. Certainly, if marijuana produced dangerous effects by toxic seepage into cell membranes, than increases in potency represent increases in danger. Certainly if marijuana produced tolerance by desensitizing brain cells, a result of this toxic seepage, then increases in potency would increase the danger of adverse effects. However marijuana produces its results by way of a neural receptor system, not membrane perturbation, and the brain can tolerate extremely high potent doses of cannabinoids. Tolerance to marijuana develops through receptor down-regulation; the body's response to high potency marijuana is seek a manageable equilibrium through receptor down-regulation. The potency hypothesis may have had some relevance in the 1980's, regardless of its foundation. However in the 1990's, the potency hypothesis has neither foundation nor relevance. My wind instrument is the bong CHANGA IN THE BONGA! 樹
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Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
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Sure correlation is not causation. But how could you actually go on and demonstrate causation when it comes to such human studies? Humans by virtue of being humans are more impervious to experimentation, in contrast to animal models and in vitro systems. Good luck demonstrating that thalidomide causes vestigial limb development in human fetuses. It's all correlation studies and many policies regarding human health are taken from correlation studies alone because this is the best we can have at hand (unless some scientist pulls a Dr Mengele of some sort...) And it is the exact same thing about cannabis and mental illness. Do you think all these scientists do correlation studies because they're too lazy doing causation studies? Let's face it, we will probably never have proof that cannabis causes mental illness, but also we should keep in mind that "correlation not meaning accusation" DOES NOT mean that we can single handedly dismiss correlation studies. All in all correlation studies is the best we have, and what they tell us is that there is definitely something fishy about cannabis use and mental illness, so you might be putting yourself at risk of you smoke cannabis, chronically at least. Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1310 Joined: 27-Sep-2012 Last visit: 01-Feb-2022 Location: Lost in space
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You make a good point Infun, I think the important thing to note is that there may well be a relationship between the two, as the study suggests. While schizophrenia can occur in someone with no family history of the illness, it would definitely be wise to proceed cautiously if there are some in one's family with it, especially if they are directly in your line of genes. Be an adult only when necessary.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 194 Joined: 31-May-2012 Last visit: 12-Jul-2023
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The study mentioned the correlation is valid for users that start before the age of 16. Now, who said that little kids should smoke weed? It should be obvious that exposing an developing brain regulary to a strongly psychoactive substance, it will have an impact. This is nothing for children, that should be self evident. But I really see no reason to argue against the use by adults. Of cause there can be some bad side effects, but that is true for virtually everything. Its a bit like forbidding sports because of the risk for injuries.
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