**Edit. Changed the title. No reason to have "Jamie please read" since he already read it.


So I recently started a caapi extraction. Following pretty close to the gibran freebase tek like I normally do.

I have something that I believe to not be typical harmala alkaloids.

Here are the steps I performed followed by a discussion.

1. (4) 5 hour boils with a table spoon of vinegar each boil
2. condensed fractions to few hundred mls.
3. base slowly, but excessively and Never Saw Precipitate
4. Stick in fridge over night. Still no precipitate.
5. extract into naptha
6. Extract into Hcl ater
7 evap.
8 repeat steps 5-7 several times.

Then I took the final brown product and
1. dissolved into water.
2. base slowly, but excessively and Never Saw Precipitate
3. extract into naptha
4. Extract into HCL water
5. evap.
6. repeat 3-5 several times.

Obviously when I didn't see the initial freebase precipitate I decided to try and pull and salt out of naptha with HCL water.

Then I taste tested the product and it was very clearly largely salt.
I then took some product and mixed with water to examine under a black light. No glow.
Made a rue-freebase standard to check in black light...NO doubt. Bright green glow.
Then took highly basic water layer and held up to black light. Dim green glow.

I never held the initial basic water phase up to the light, but I'm certain it would have had a brighter green glow.

What they hell am I working with here? The green glow id indicative or aromatic rings, and most likely I'd guess harmala like rings. However the inability to extract via standard A/B chemistry leads me to believe the amine is either not an amine or protected with bulky groups... Just raw speculation here. I have no access to lab equipment any longer and determining the structure will be just about impossible.

I do still have 100grams of this vine. BTW This was very old vine. At least 5-6 inches in diameter. I hate that I have wasted 300g, but I really want to have an idea what I have before I drink any of the remaining vine.

Jamie you are the first person I thought of... in fact the entire reason I decided to extract this caapi instead of drinking it was hearing about your black caapi experience that floored you hard. I wanted to know how much harmalas I was going to ingest if I drank it.

I'd be very curious what others hear have to say about this. I'm totally perplexed. Any ideas?

That sounds a lot like you may have Alicia Anisopetala there instead of B. Caapi.

Have you checked this thread?

I'm not so sure it's the same thing they are working with in that thread simply because it sounds like they were actually get precipitates as expected and I never saw a precipitate.

I forget to mention, and I'll edit above, that I let the first round sit in the fridge over night. Never had any sort of precipitate.

But there is a soft green glow still in the basic water water.

the vine I was reffering to was cielo Joedirt..I have never had black B.caapi vine. Minxx has and said it was not any stronger than white or yellow though. The strongest vine I have ever drunk in my life(including muricata, alicia etc) is a cielo vine I had..and other cielo vines did not compare to this vine either.

Lots of vendors are selling "black caapi" that is really alicia, mislabling it in order to sell more cus noone wanted alicia..and lots of people seem to be getting this stuff..trying to extract it and getting not much of anything..could that be whats going on?

Oh..l for some reason I thought it was a black vine. My bad.

Either way I'm intrigued by the alicia story. It sounded like they were actually getting free base harmalas to precipitate were as I wasn't getting any sort of precipitate in the base phase at all.

I'll go read up on the alicia threads a little more before to see if perhaps that really is it.

Brewed up the reaming 140grams last night.

Drank approximately 30 this morning.
The brew was extremely bitter which is suggestive of alkaloids.

30 minutes since ingestion I can feel a definite buzz coming on.


This brew is active...yet the alkaloids are unextractable with either gibran's Tek or full A/B extractions...
Obviously I haven't tried every solvent acid combination yet, but whatever is in this vine is not like typical aya vines. I've extracted these alkaloids several times from caapi and rue. The fact that they don't just crash out of solution when you base them tells me there is something more going on here.

Also, the brew definitely glows green like haramals.
Of course it's a black brew, but you can still see the green glow.

I wish I still had pictures of the old growth vine to show for comparison.
honestly it looks just like a cappi vine to me.

One guess is that these could be some sort of N-substituted haramals.

As I sit here and type this I continue to feel the harmala like drunkenness setting in.... This brew feels really strong as I only drank approx 30 grams worth.

Joedirt, do you have a blacklight? Can you check if the brew glows? If it contain harmalas, it will glow. The Alicia anisopetala that we've been getting do not glow (at least according to my test from one batch from a known peruvian seller), and when tested with GC/LC-MS, did not show any of the known harmala compounds.

It definitely glows. Though it's not like the glow of refined harmals in water... you know the extraction water is black so when I hold up to a black light there is certainly a green glow that sorta peeks out from the black water. They however don't crash out like normal harmalas. For what it's worth lots of compounds (mostly those with conjugated aromatic ring systems) glow via uv.

With that said. This certainly felt like Harmalas. Is it possible I did something wrong in the extraction? I suppose it is, but the basing of harmalas is such a straight forward procedure it just seems unlikely that a mistake was made on my part here...

Remember I couldn't get these compounds to change phase with A/B chemistry either.

Very strange. But I can tell you this. There is something there and it's relatively potent and it feels like a harmala. This is why I think it may be a substituted harmala compound (That is pure speculation though). I'm going to hit up an old friend that is still employed as an organic chemist to see if he can isolate and identify what I have. This will be a touchy conversation though since he isn't into drug culture at all, but he does know I'm a normal joe (pun intended) and may very well work with me. He did in fact one time offer me a lot of pure muscimol...to which I declined....

Hi , you say:

5. extract into naptha
6. Extract into Hcl ater
7 evap.
8 repeat steps 5-7 several times."

What's with steps 5-8 ?
I've used Gibran's tek, but none of the caapi tek's mention using a NPS to recover
the freebase or then salting it out again...

Just a thought - it ain't the same procedure as the spice, peas