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Ibotenic acid to muscimol using dmso Options
 
dmtmd
#1 Posted : 5/16/2013 4:49:29 PM
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Ibotenic acid can be converted to muscimol by decarboxylation using dmso. I think this method will be the tek of the future in regards to amanita muscaria, but there is one question i have. When the dmso decarboxylates the ibotenic acid what waste products are made in the reaction. And if the waste products can be identified what is a good way to remove them from muscimol?
All my post are theoretical and if i refer to myself in terms like me or I, i am actually referring to a theoretical entity name me or I.
 

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KaiserSaucy
#2 Posted : 5/16/2013 5:15:09 PM

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What are the benefits over simply heat treating them to convert the acid?
 
dmtmd
#3 Posted : 5/16/2013 6:17:46 PM
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Boiling them in water is a myth and does not work. baking them/cooking may have some legitimacy but i question how thorough it is. And when dealing with a compound that causes brain lesions it pays to be thorough. same idea applies to sunlight treatment.
All my post are theoretical and if i refer to myself in terms like me or I, i am actually referring to a theoretical entity name me or I.
 
KaiserSaucy
#4 Posted : 5/17/2013 1:38:42 PM

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I can vouch that baking them seems to work well, I've only used amanita on 4 separate occasions but each time I baked them & had a nice time with zero ill effects that I noticed.

Mood elevation bordering on euphoria during one trip, brighter colours, richer deeper music appreciation, experienced a very warm cosy body glow where it felt great to just stretch and move around in general, some minor cev's.

I generally stuck to low to mid level doses 5-10g. It would be interesting to see a chemical analysis of them before and after baking I admit...but there is a large body of experience reports which support that there is truth to the practice of baking the amanita in order to convert the ibotenic acid.

I'll have a look at the tek though cheers for bringing it up
 
moniker
#5 Posted : 5/17/2013 5:03:33 PM

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dmtmd wrote:
Boiling them in water is a myth and does not work. baking them/cooking may have some legitimacy but i question how thorough it is. And when dealing with a compound that causes brain lesions it pays to be thorough. same idea applies to sunlight treatment.



I don't know about amanita boiling being a myth, I'll have to disagree with that.
From my experience boiling it works fine although it may not be the most efficient method.

The study I believe you are referring to that originally mentioned an association between brain lesions and Amanita involved repetitive injections of ibotenic acid into rats and mice.....

If your ingesting the Amanita it is a different story than injecting it IMO
http://www.erowid.org/ar...nita.muscaria.review.pdf

see P.138 for lesions

see p. 133 for decarboxilation of ibotenic acid

BTW I don't think any method will yield a 100% conversion of all Ibotenic acid to Muscimole anyways...(except maybe the pee method..Shocked )
and if DMSO does do the job I'm not sure how you would then separate the Muscimole from the DMSO because I doubt you want to consume DMSO, it is known to give a person an ultra bad case of fishy body odor if ingested I believe.

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dmtmd
#6 Posted : 5/17/2013 11:54:57 PM
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Yeah the boiling things a myth ill post the study when i get on later. The reason why brain lesions are a worry for me in humans is that it 1. crosses the blood brain barrier
2. is used by scientist to be dropped into the brain in very small amounts to induce brain lesions.
Now there might be some mechanism preventing lesions after it passes the bbb, but i think its better to be on the safe side.
The reason i like dmso is you can completely titrate the ibotenic acid and you can add extra dmso ensuring that you have reacted it completely instead of just guessing with baking.
Another option might be that you can just distill ibotenic acid from muscimol, im pretty sure their boiling points are far enough away to maby do it under a vacuum.
All my post are theoretical and if i refer to myself in terms like me or I, i am actually referring to a theoretical entity name me or I.
 
moniker
#7 Posted : 5/18/2013 7:12:03 AM

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moniker wrote:
In Lithuania and Poland they actually cook Amanita as part of certain traditional dishes and eat it as regular food and in Japan they pickle and eat them. I myself have eaten and smoked them for years and my brain seems to mostly work. Of course I can understand cation as "brain lesion" is a pretty scary term.

http://www.mushroomhunte...%20cooking%20methods.pdf


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibotenic_acid
from^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Quote:
Ibotenic acid is used as a brain-lesioning agent in the research environment. When injected intracranially, ibotenic acid causes the development of excitotoxic lesions of the brain.


It seems like if Amanita was that dangerous then indigenous peoples probably would not have used them to the extent that they are known to have been used. It is speculated to be one of the oldest entheogens known to man since it grows on just about every major continent.

There are some who believe Amanita is potentially a very healthy substance and I happen to agree with that. I personally think this is one of those "sacred" medicinal substances (like Caapi and DMT) that have benefits and effects that are simply beyond the current understanding of science.

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Parshvik Chintan
#8 Posted : 5/18/2013 3:45:21 PM

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moniker wrote:
I myself have eaten and smoked them for years and my brain seems to mostly work.

that's just the brain lesion talking. Very happy
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dmtmd
#9 Posted : 5/19/2013 7:15:29 PM
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Yeah monicer i completely agree with you about it having benefits potentially beyond current science. I also want to theorize that since many people use amanita to reprogram thoughts and subconscious that maby ibotenic acid selectively targets specific spots in the brain and causes lesions there so that the brain can be reprogrammed. This is all whimsical speculation of course but maby one of the main medicinal factors of amanita is the acid.

Im not worried about having to separate muscimol from dmso, there are several simple ways to do this, i just want to know what is created when dmso converts ibotenic acid. As it may be creating another toxic compound altogether.

lol@the brain lesion talking!!
All my post are theoretical and if i refer to myself in terms like me or I, i am actually referring to a theoretical entity name me or I.
 
moniker
#10 Posted : 5/20/2013 1:12:51 AM

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Parshvik Chintan wrote:
moniker wrote:
I myself have eaten and smoked them for years and my brain seems to mostly work.

that's just the brain lesion talking. Very happy


Laughing

“Music is the voice of God traveling through ten-dimensional hyperspace.”
― Michio Kaku
 
 
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