I think there is no thread about this yet and this topic really deserves a discussion.

I recently stumbled upon an interesting BBC documentary.

Some things the owner of a permaculture forest garden mentioned really puzzled me. The principle is, that the land is not cleared but the whole ecosystem is pushed in a direction, that offers a very broad range of high quality fruit, vegetable, nuts, herbs, mushrooms etc. and but needs very little maintainance. The guy said, that with a good design you can feed up to 10 people per acre (in England!) and it needs about a days work in a week, which is mostly harvesting.

You can get a piece of land, let everything grow, direct it a bit by planting certain species and promote the growth of other wanted plants and then all you have to do is sit back and harvest from time to time. You can feed yourself and quite some other people by just being a creative gardener on a small piece of land.

I mean, you can probably live of that! You can set up a private or small scale commercial distribution system to get money for the excess food. I would know quite a lot people who would probably support this and be very happy about this kind of food. You could probably also get a good deal with an expensive restaurant with a creative chef. And if you make a blog about it you could probably never produce and harvest enough to satisfy the demand. And because this needs so little work you can also have a job at the side to pay of the land and pay living expenses until your system is running reliable.

I'm collecting more information at the moment and I think quite a lot about if this would be possible. What do you guys think about this kind a food production?

I think its a very interesting topic, and from what i've read its the only long term sustainable way to practice agriculture (who would have thought mimicking nature with minimal technological inputs works so well? )

The way forward is the way back, the problem is most of the farming in the US is done by a few multinationals using monsanto seeds/roundup/organophosphate pesticides, etc, etc. They kill the land, insects, affect human health, destroy soil fertility that took thousands of years to develop, etc. And its only profitable with mind boggling gov subsidies, green revolution my ass.

The great depression was the biggest kick in the balls to mom/pop small/sustainable farming, we went from most of the farmland owned by 30+ million farmers, to a few million land owning farmers, and multinationals owning most of the land and employing farm workers. In a time frame of a few YEARS. Its almost criminal.

Back on topic, permaculture in terms of practical application, would require a college level education in ecology/agriculture/biology/etc. Not to say you can't do it, or teach yourself how, but get a good education in the field, and it will be the best investment you ever made. Thats on of my dreams at least, go to school & learn how to do it right, then take the dive when i have the capital and start a farm somewhere.

But agriculture in and of itself is, on a small scale, something only the well educated, or well experienced/taught can do profitably. Most of the populace has abandoned this, and let multinationals provide their food and dont ask questions about how thats done/how it affects them. Kind of sad really.

Yes it is indeed very interesting.



Not just almost. But the thing is, it is legal too.



I got a bachelors degree in Biology. I have quite a good knowledge of the function of ecosystems and the role of many plants, animals, bacteria and fungi in them. If I look for a masters degree in that area, learn more gardening and make a few practica at permakulture forests, then I should be ready to design and start a food forest at a big area. And I think I could get a few people I know to join this, because you can just life in the permaculture forest and participate in the gardening, but still go to the city and stay in your job, your education and your "normal" live. You could have normal health care, send your kids to school without problems, drive away for holydays... You don't need to really drop out, but can nevertheless show your middle finger to the system.




Yes it is really sad, especially when you see this through the biologists glases and recognise, that agriculture is responsible for a big part of the ecological catastrophe we are currently in. And I thought until now, that the food production necessarily means a loss of diversity. But then these people proof, that you can feed more people, have much less work, bring much more biodiversity, even can revive degraded landscapes...

With this kind of food production it is IMO not possible but also not necessary to compete with the established food industry. In Europe I think it would be even forbidden to commercially sell almost anything from a permaculture, since you would need an official approval of every plant specie you want to distribute.
I think private agreements are the way to go. I would just ask people I know, if they would like to receive my surplus harvest on a regular basis. And they give back a present. Maybe something they know I need or a sum of money of their choice. Then its not even a buyer / seller relationship but a friendship that includes an agreement to regulary switch presents. I think there are really quite some people that would be open to such an idea. And I think if you let them the choice what to give you back
You could also mark current edible plants with a sign that tells you what to harvest and how to use it and then people will harvest their own food and leave some money in a collection box at the way out.

feed 10 people per acre? with a forest that you spend 1 day a week just plucking the fruits of nature?

I don't have a "college level" education in agriculture hehe, I preferred doing something to just talking about it. I urge any and all of you to look at the amount of food you eat in a week. Just put it all on a table and take a real honest look at it. You are telling me 1acre (which is very small by the way) is enough to produce ten times that? and you could do that by spending 1 day a week producing it?

I'm very good at producing food... very very good. But I would have a job in front of me to produce EVERYTHING 10 people need off a heavily worked acre and have it all stored and or processed so that it could be enjoyed year round. I could do it most certainly, but I assure you it would be a full time job, not something where I can just walk around harvesting things.

While permaculture is a good idea, it will never work on a large enough scale to matter. Not with the current population being as large as it is. I have worked with a couple permaculture projects over the years and they require far more work than is imagined. It is a nice idea for a personal project but unreasonable for a community project.

Day Tripper - What happened in the 30's is a direct result of "The Great Dust Bowl" in the 20's. Had the entire mid west not been over farmed most of the farmers would have been able to survive, but unreasonable farming practice was their down fall.

Since then the US put in place a good farming education system, the mid west had recovered and now produces almost enough grain to feed the world (although we don't, but that is another discussion all together) at a sustainable rate.

The only real problem now is over reaching GMO producers trying to show profits and any expense. This problem will make the dust bowl look like a small hiccup as it is now world wide.

nameless

I think food forests are what the ten people per acre was talking about (likely)

Theres soo much stuff around the net and youtube about permaculture and food forests, ive learned quite a bit from this.

A forest is like a permaculture university

Also the permaculture research institute of australia is quite inspirational, and they have lots of info online

I love the idea, if we could only have the quantum leap in awareness of the general population, which sadly is unlikely to happen. I mean if people are just idly standing by as governements curtail their civil rights through prohibition and intrusive surveilance operations and big corporations being given green lights for indulging in every possible shortcut to maximise profits,they are unlikely to get motivated to do something like this.

With all the online resources available,Permaculture practice won't require a college degree in biology or horticulture, it will require however that you make it your passion and hobby. It's just not a "sideline" thing.
http://permacultureprinciples.com/

Another great site
http://permaculturenews.org/
Its a forum with many great and creative topics added daily

Edit: the link doesnt seem to be working for me, but one could google permaculturenews and could find it