analytical chemist
   
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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tried it several times. good for analysis, bioassay, not so much. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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Methanol extracting dried fruits = the way forward. Not by me though what do you think I am some kinda evildoer druggy or something ? Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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member for the trees
 
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 27-May-2024
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benzyme wrote: Quote:for one, the OH has its own pKa. there are three possible species of psilocin at its isoelectric point, none of them above 50%. deprotonating the amine at a pH > 9.37 means giving the OH a negative charge.
since the OH a polar side group with a proton donor and acceptor, it readily absorbs moisture and undergoes autooxidation from air. proximity to the beta carbon likely also gives it unique physical characteristics. Infundibulum wrote: Quote:3. No, even psilocybin "freebase" (a loose term here to describe net charge = zero, aka isoelectic point) which exists theoretically at a pH of 4, is still waaaay too polar to be pulled with xylene or other non-polar solvent. ..so, anyone know what taking the pH to >8 creates? ..what compound would this be?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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10g in methanol soaked for a 24 hours could should absorb all of the actives. Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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Dried shrooms won't get soggy like they do in water, by the way. Blend them up to ensure as much solvent as possible comes into contact with the material. Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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Barry
Posts: 1740 Joined: 10-Jan-2010 Last visit: 05-Mar-2014 Location: Inside the Higgs Boson
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I hope all goes to plan Orion 
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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So this is the product so far dried out with MgSO4. It's like a layer of sticky film, just brittle enough to scrape up without any mess. Since I have plenty of hexane I will see if I can remove some gunk with it. Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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lettuce
Posts: 1077 Joined: 26-Mar-2012 Last visit: 15-Jan-2016 Location: Far, Far Away
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Orion wrote:So this is the product so far dried out with MgSO4. It's like a layer of sticky film, just brittle enough to scrape up without any mess. Since I have plenty of hexane I will see if I can remove some gunk with it. This is as far as I've gotten with this extraction path. I'll be interested to see the results of taking it further! Thanks! Pup TentacleYou are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you.Robert Anton WilsonMushroom Greenhouse How-ToI'm no pro but I know a a few things - always willing to help with Psilocybe cubensis cultivation questions.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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does it smell like indole? Long live the unwoke.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 648 Joined: 06-Apr-2012 Last visit: 01-Apr-2017 Location: Old continent
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Very interesting, Orion, thanks for sharing.
(1) Did you weight the gunk?
(2) How many pulls? Just one?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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Michal_R wrote:Very interesting, Orion, thanks for sharing.
(1) Did you weight the gunk?
(2) How many pulls? Just one? I didn't weigh the resin as it is not what I intend to finish up with. I only pulled once with methanol as I believe I have already used an excessive amount for the amount of psilocybin in the mix. I just wanted to be sure. jamie wrote:does it smell like indole? Nope, but it whiffs of concentrated shrooms. The hexane 'pull' from the resin got quite cloudy with a little bit of gentle heating in a double boiler, but I have no idea what this may be. Evaporating the hexane has left another oily product, much thinner and tackier than the resin. In any case, I think acetone would likely do most of the work from this point forward, so I need to get some more. Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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I just weighed the resin and it came to 1.2g. I just ate 120mg of that... Should feel like a gram of shrooms. Might not be that efficient, but we shall see what happens. *EDIT* Yup barely slight effects as expected on a full stomach without lemon 'tek'.Not sure if something could have been carried but not actually dissolved into the hexane too, so I think I'll recombine that oil with the resin again and clean this up with a ketone. I wouldn't bother with the Hexane again personally, or any nonpolar solvent. Acetone is probably the best bet. Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 27-May-2024
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..interesting and thanks for the research Orion.. as for what's in there, just wanted to point out that in the 'Hoffman' technique posted earlier here, acetone and chloroform (NP solvent) are used to remove what's not psilocybin..so, the hexane pull would not be the alkaloid..
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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I have a couple grams of cubes that have been soaking in 99% iso for a couple weeks now..I should filter it a couple times and evaporate it and see what kind of stuff I end up with. I have a lot of them to play with now.. Long live the unwoke.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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nen888 wrote:..interesting and thanks for the research Orion..
as for what's in there, just wanted to point out that in the 'Hoffman' technique posted earlier here, acetone and chloroform (NP solvent) are used to remove what's not psilocybin..so, the hexane pull would not be the alkaloid.. Thank you, I saw that, I just wondered if it may have been possible some psilocybin, although not dissolved, could have been 'carried' into the solvent when I rinsed the resin in it. Personally I doubt it, but just to be sure I will recombine what that took out. Chloroform is difficult for me to obtain but I have heard that psilocin is soluble in xylene, so that would be an extra step. I think If I did this again I would start with the acetone, then xylene, then methanol. Resin is kind of annoying to work with as solvents only contact the outer skin of it. Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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Rennasauce Man
Posts: 853 Joined: 27-May-2011 Last visit: 25-Feb-2019 Location: A Pale Blue Dot orbiting a GV2 Yellow Dwarf fusion powered Luminous Ball of Plasma at 30km/s
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Orion wrote:nen888 wrote:..interesting and thanks for the research Orion..
as for what's in there, just wanted to point out that in the 'Hoffman' technique posted earlier here, acetone and chloroform (NP solvent) are used to remove what's not psilocybin..so, the hexane pull would not be the alkaloid.. Thank you, I saw that, I just wondered if it may have been possible some psilocybin, although not dissolved, could have been 'carried' into the solvent when I rinsed the resin in it. Personally I doubt it, but just to be sure I will recombine what that took out. Chloroform is difficult for me to obtain but I have heard that psilocin is soluble in xylene, so that would be an extra step. I think If I did this again I would start with the acetone, then xylene, then methanol. Resin is kind of annoying to work with as solvents only contact the outer skin of it. What about a dual phase solvent defatting, or cleaning of the resin? That would bump up the cleaning ability vs just outer surface area defatting/cleaning. At least with cactus resin, the defatting worked alot better if i dissolved it in water, and washed with heptane and then limonene, vs just washing with those NP's and not dissolving it in water. I know your standard water/hydrocarbon NP (like naptha/heptane) procedure isn't on the table, as your going to degrade your psilocin/psilocybin by hydrating it, but are there other solvents that would accomplish this without the degradation? Might just work if you can find something that's polar enough to hold the alkaloid salts in solution, but not degrade them like water does, and a NP solvent that is not miscible with your polar solvent, and doesn't solubulize any of the actives, only the impurities. I'd imagine there has to be a way using a dry alcohol + some other NP solvent. "let those who have talked to the elves, find each other and band together" -TMK
In a society in which nearly everybody is dominated by somebody else's mind or by a disembodied mind, it becomes increasingly difficult to learn the truth about the activities of governments and corporations, about the quality or value of products, or about the health of one's own place and economy.
In such a society, also, our private economies will depend less upon the private ownership of real, usable property, and more upon property that is institutional and abstract, beyond individual control, such as money, insurance policies, certificates of deposit, stocks, etc. And as our private economies become more abstract, the mutual, free helps and pleasures of family and community life will be supplanted by a kind of displaced citizenship and by commerce with impersonal and self-interested suppliers...
The great enemy of freedom is the alignment of political power with wealth. This alignment destroys the commonwealth - that is, the natural wealth of localities and the local economies of household, neighborhood, and community - and so destroys democracy, of which the commonwealth is the foundation and practical means.โ - Wendell Berry
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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The Day Tripper wrote:What about a dual phase solvent defatting, or cleaning of the resin? That would bump up the cleaning ability vs just outer surface area defatting/cleaning. At least with cactus resin, the defatting worked alot better if i dissolved it in water, and washed with heptane and then limonene, vs just washing with those NP's and not dissolving it in water.
I know your standard water/hydrocarbon NP (like naptha/heptane) procedure isn't on the table, as your going to degrade your psilocin/psilocybin by hydrating it, but are there other solvents that would accomplish this without the degradation?
Might just work if you can find something that's polar enough to hold the alkaloid salts in solution, but not degrade them like water does, and a NP solvent that is not miscible with your polar solvent, and doesn't solubulize any of the actives, only the impurities.
I'd imagine there has to be a way using a dry alcohol + some other NP solvent.
The problem with that is that non polar solvents like hexane or naphtha really don't remove many impurities from mushrooms. Xylene and acetone mix, but even still, the impurities will likely be much more soluble in the polar phase, so they wouldn't migrate. Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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Rennasauce Man
Posts: 853 Joined: 27-May-2011 Last visit: 25-Feb-2019 Location: A Pale Blue Dot orbiting a GV2 Yellow Dwarf fusion powered Luminous Ball of Plasma at 30km/s
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Orion wrote:The Day Tripper wrote:What about a dual phase solvent defatting, or cleaning of the resin? That would bump up the cleaning ability vs just outer surface area defatting/cleaning. At least with cactus resin, the defatting worked alot better if i dissolved it in water, and washed with heptane and then limonene, vs just washing with those NP's and not dissolving it in water.
I know your standard water/hydrocarbon NP (like naptha/heptane) procedure isn't on the table, as your going to degrade your psilocin/psilocybin by hydrating it, but are there other solvents that would accomplish this without the degradation?
Might just work if you can find something that's polar enough to hold the alkaloid salts in solution, but not degrade them like water does, and a NP solvent that is not miscible with your polar solvent, and doesn't solubulize any of the actives, only the impurities.
I'd imagine there has to be a way using a dry alcohol + some other NP solvent.
The problem with that is that non polar solvents like hexane or naphtha really don't remove many impurities from mushrooms. Xylene and acetone mix, but even still, the impurities will likely be much more soluble in the polar phase, so they wouldn't migrate. I see where your coming from. Stuff like sugars, and other polar impurities. IIRC, i remember reading about that somewhere before. I'm beginning to think the reason why there is no well known "high purity" extraction method for mushrooms, is well, because its just not easily done considering the factors involved. Won't give up hope though  "let those who have talked to the elves, find each other and band together" -TMK
In a society in which nearly everybody is dominated by somebody else's mind or by a disembodied mind, it becomes increasingly difficult to learn the truth about the activities of governments and corporations, about the quality or value of products, or about the health of one's own place and economy.
In such a society, also, our private economies will depend less upon the private ownership of real, usable property, and more upon property that is institutional and abstract, beyond individual control, such as money, insurance policies, certificates of deposit, stocks, etc. And as our private economies become more abstract, the mutual, free helps and pleasures of family and community life will be supplanted by a kind of displaced citizenship and by commerce with impersonal and self-interested suppliers...
The great enemy of freedom is the alignment of political power with wealth. This alignment destroys the commonwealth - that is, the natural wealth of localities and the local economies of household, neighborhood, and community - and so destroys democracy, of which the commonwealth is the foundation and practical means.โ - Wendell Berry
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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Will be doing the acetone rinse some time hopefully this week. Depending on how that goes I might do this again starting with acetone for the reason I mentioned previously. Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
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So this is what a day sitting in acetone produced after I recombined the stuff that came up into the hexane. This weighs 0.985mg. The acetone actually removed far less than I thought it would. It has a crumbly waxy texture. Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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