Fractal E: What would be your harmala + dmt dosage? Just curious

60-100g of caapi, or a few grams of rue with 1-3g of mimosa.. or small 5-10mg sized hits when the caapi peaks, I take the hits slowly and spaced a minute or 2 apart until I am where I want to be, then I lay down.

Even if I smoke just changa alone, I am finding that taking smaller hits spaced a minute(well maybe less) or so apart take me deeper than just one big hit. If I take a full dose in one hit sure it is intense and all..but it is too fast and overwhelming to really get anything from other than the odd time. It is like a psychedelic light sh0w..it feels superficial in comparison to taking smaller hits and building up into a space that is far more psychologically deep for me, and still very visionary.

I just dont see the point in me loading up a full breakthrough dose and inhaling it all at once anymore. Doing it that way is not like ayahuasca at all for me. I eat a diet comprised mainly or raw fruit and vegetables though. My diet is full of maoi's from various fruits and melatonin etc so I am sure that makes it easier to smoke slowly compared to other diets. It does make a big difference I can tell.

Hi and thanks for all of the replies. A couple things:

When I said "1 gram" I was exaggerating to illustrate a point. Although I really meant 100mg not 1000

Re. the warnings not to take spice lightly, that's exactly why I'm asking people with more experience than me. So many thanks for everybody's insight and openness.

For me, there is definitely a right time to travel, and a wrong time. So when the right time presents itself I want to make the most of that opportunity. Doing too much and forgetting everything is a total waste, so I'll be glad to avoid that.

with the gvg i think your spot on starting around 15mg. learn by taking it all in one good hit holding for as close to 10 seconds as possible kick back and let go surrendering to the experience. increase or decrease from there depending on your comfort level. personally i dont need to go much past 20-25 mg with the gvg and a solid vaping method to break through.

i just wanted to say that the experience i wrote about in my introduction essay is what i consider to have been me experiencing the full effects of DMT and scraping the ceiling as far as that goes. i really can't comprehend how i could have tripped any harder off of it, and i imagine if i did then i don't know what... i guess i'd probably to lay down or something. it was unbelievably powerful.

that being said... i think i might have a go here....

I think measuring your dose cannot be stressed enough .
At one point early in my explorations I took an unmeasured
Dose after drinking a very strong black caapi vine tea .
To say it was the single most terrifying experience in my life
Would be An understatement. I,ve had many other difficult journeys
But the one I speak of stands out . It's in archives I believe something about
Becoming an alien being .

If your inexperienced with dmt don't tempt fate.
Trust me when I say be respectful and humble .
Work up to higher doses. Always measure .

Don't ever think you have it figured out .

Breathe through the tough spots stay focussed and centered
As best you can , just witness it , don't judge it stay cool ,
Don't panic , try to keep a sense of humor about it .
Sometimes its so fucking weird its funny.

It’s hard to convey in words the nature of a deep DMT breakthrough, so I apologize in advance if my interpretation of your “scraping the ceiling” experience is off the mark, but reading about your experience in your introduction, it seems to me to be a fairly typical breakthrough. Being transported to another realm and interacting with entities is “standard” stuff when one is in the midst of a breakthrough.

I’m saying this not to minimize your experience, but to let you know that it’s possible to go much, much further than you have gone. In fact, I believe that we each will reach our own personal psychic breaking-point long before we reach a “maximum” dose of DMT. Believing that you have gone as far as you can go can lead to some very difficult experiences.

The only limit to how far you can go with DMT, if there is a limit, is your own personal psychic/psychological limit.

I have used DMT for a similar time-frame and also had many (~50) sub-breakthrough experiences and a couple of breakthroughs. The strongest breakthrough i had previously was a black-out dose from which I only remember fragments. I use to be a little cavalier with my dosing, eyeballing larger and larger doses until i found an amount i enjoyed. I always assumed that the blacking out would make OD'ing impossible.

Yesterday a friend and i decided to partake, and for the first time i experienced a breakthrough dose which i can only describe as overwhelmingly terrifying. Several days earlier i had sampled a new extract for purity, and had some idea of the weight. I loaded up what would have been 55-60mg. During the trip I tore of my shirt, my body & bedsheets were drenched in sweat, i almost lost bladder & bowl control, and i remember during the experience praying to god that it would just end. The onslaught of hyperspace was beyond what i had previously experienced, and what i normally experience as the body-vibrations were earthquake-like and felt physically painful.

The intensity of the visual and psychedelic experience was overcast by the horrible flight-or-fight response i suffered. My hands and feet were numb with pins and needles for ~20 minutes AFTER the experience, my heart felt weak, and i was utterly exhausted. For the record, i am reasonably fit, mid 20s, and relatively healthy other than a stomach ulcer ive had for a month or two.

I was so shaken by the experience i had to decline my friend from further partaking that night as i felt uncomfortable loading even a small dose for him - thankfully he was understanding of my reluctance. I told him i never want him to experience the sheer terror of what i felt.

*edit*

I would like to add something odd about this experience. The fragments i remember from the peak of the journey were the sense that i was experiencing/seeing much of my past experience flash before my eyes. I would usually put this down to an altered state making me simply feel/think this, however, after the experience finally wore off, i had a far greater memory recall for my own life, even remembering events that happened as young as 18-24 months old, when prior to this my youngest memories were of the age 2-3 years. I also had much better recall of *past* experiences with many psychedelics, including past breakthroughs. This effect seems to be fading as more time passes.

I agree about dmt dosing being exponential, but furthermore it's related to certain variables, how much maoi mostly, 2 grams of rue and 50 mg of dmt will be different from 4 grams of rue and 50 mg of dmt, the maoi determines the length and breadth of the experience, too much rue, if your stomach doesn't agree with it your trip will be very unpleasant, it might seem overwhelming because it's nauseating and the trip so powerful, but less maoi will be perfectly fine, also other factors are how much, if anything is in your system prior to the maoi/dmt dose, food and drink, other drugs will also drastically change the trip. I've DEFINITELY reached my limit by very luckily guessing, a couple times so, once was my first vape, I convulsed aggressively for a long time alone, not sure who I was or what was happening to me for what felt like thousands of lifetimes, it blew my brains out, I can't imagine taking more than that, it was probably fifty to 70 mg or so is my best guess, with about 6g of rue, looking back now it was one of my favorite experiences but fully terrifying, another was about 100 mg of pharma, couldn't have handled more, well wouldn't have wanted to!!
My idea to take this further is to somehow take in more dmt within the trip but doing so while in hyperspace, like an IV drip wild be seemingly ideal, just stay in and keep going further, or have a sitter feed a vape hit an hour in out something, somehow I could control it by a signal or something, it's a rough idea that I want to try...

[note: this thread is almost 2 years old]


I would be careful about just jumping into really high doses. If you want to increase dosage, just work your way up. No need to rush

I once inhaled 50mg in one big hit, and that was way more than i would ever want. I didn't black out and i've never not remembered an experience (of course some things are lost however), but this was just toooo much. It didn't help that i was caught off guard, thinking it would only be a low dose while hitting the pipe.. My friend had hit the pipe a few times just before me, but it turns out that unbeknownst to me he only succeeding in melting the spice, and didn't get anything.

I remember one of the biggest shocks in my DMT "career" was right at the beginning. I didn't really think anything was in there (dunno why I was hitting it in the first place) but there was the DMT condensate in the neck which I didn't understand at all at the time. I had my strongest experience up until that point then, and as far as I knew there wasn't any DMT in there at all (of course it turned out to be the condensate).

You are talking about orally active DMT (Pharma) here, right? I am asking, because vaping while fully MAO inhibited magnifies the power of Spice more than 3 times for me. That´s why I am asking myslef why would anyone ever want to vape 150mg of Spice...?

Yeah, I was unclear sometimes on pure DMT vs changa. I'm waiting for the milligram scale to come in before I try changa. But this thread is good to know. Previously assumed it was impossible to go way to far with pure DMT in a GVG, but it seems I should always measure.

..wading into the thread without having read all the responses yet..

1 - above a certain smoked amount (around 70mg, or less if in a GVG) people 'black-out' (or white-out) ..it's not that they don't have experiences, its just they can't remember anything about them in most cases..like very deep sleep..so, there's not much point as there's nothing to 'bring back'..

2 - i would agree that 'breakthrough' is not simply a function of dosage, and probably relates to metabolism, diet, mindset, set and setting, amount of sleep etc..as well as 'openness' and the spirit..

i take the OP to refer to simply DMT..

as for Harmalas, an overdose can be very unpleasant physically and mentally, and depends partly on diet/contraindications etc..an OD of DMT is still better than a harmala OD..and safer..
.

This resonates with me quite A bit, I definitely had a point where I thought I went as deep into the abyss as one could go, and that I knew the range of experiences that may result. You may not get deeper, but when you think you have any understanding, it has a tendency to show you how truly wrong you are.

I have been backhanded by the substance several times, with experiences not even remotely close to any description of Psychedelic. Voyages unlike anything I've ever experienced, or have words to begin to describe. Having every assumption I've ever held ripped apart, and closer of an effect one would describe as a deliriant rather then a psychedelic.