I'm curious to know how DMT has affected your views politically.

Would you describe yourselves as more on the left or right? Are your views unchanged since before you took DMT?

I would suspect that perhaps DMT might make you politically apathetic. Is that the case? Has anyone here voted since they first tried DMT?

I personally have a strong attachment to many things, and politics is one of them. If I tried to extricate myself from these attachments I wouldn't be able to do so. I suspect though that if I tried DMT I probably wouldn't care about those things anymore, because much of it is probably tied in with ego.

My friend from work asked me to reply for him:

"You're right, DMT has made me more politically apathetic, but not because of the ego. It is because it has made me realise in stark terms just how divorced I am from the mainstream. I say 'more' because I've never really had much time for politics, I follow it but I don't stake my hat in the ring because I feel that a)my politics will never be implemented and b) my voice affects nothing.

I am a product of Blair's Britain, a man who has had such a huge majority in parliament that he can do what he wants. He passed numerous laws on the nod to cut down our individual freedom, he took us to a few wars, despite me and a million other people marching to parliament. Luckily and predictably he managed to turn his huge groundswell of popular support against him, but then what did we get; an unelected prime minister! I could go on but I'll spare you the rant..

If I was to align myself anywhere it would be as a Libertarian Socialist. DMT has probably helped me to harden that viewpoint, it's one that exists outside any immediately achievable political structure.

Seriously, what government or party that can get anywhere near power would allow me to do Ibogaine, DMT and the whole range of other psychedelics out there as freely as I liked? Implementing the philsophy that I have complete control over my own body and mind? What percentage of people in even such a liberal country of England would give me the time of day if I admitted in public what I do?

Imagine if I hid it and ran for office, on a mainstream left wing ticket, with genuinely good intentions and a desire to actually change something. I'd be smeared all over the papers "drugs shame of prime ministerial candidate."

DMT has forced me into my own little world in a way, forcing me to acknowledge more starkly than other psychedelics, that I and those closest to me are massive outsiders. Increased political apathy is just one symptom of this."

That is incredibly interesting. Please thank your friend on my behalf. Also ask him if he is/was a Chomsky fan by any chance? I've only heard the Libertarian Socialist view forcefully articulated by him, and I like what I hear although some of it gets too abstract at times.

SWIM was always a little interested in philosophical political theory. But not 'politics' itself as it stands today.

DMT has politically motivated him much further. Firstly, because it has reawakened his intellectual curiosity, and secondly, because it has brought him to believe it a great injustice that DMT (and mescaline) are illegal.

Before DMT, his experiments with illegal drugs had not led him to personally see anything in them worthwhile enough to feel particularly political about their illegality. Whereas now the criminalisation of DMT and mescaline have caused him to completely reject his culture and country as oppressive.

His political stance remains the same, pro-technology Green, and some sort of libertarian socialist. He believes in a minimal role of government, legalisation of all drugs with doctors controlling but not witholding access to the problematic addictive ones, welfare state, free healthcare. His latest idea is one rate of pay for all employed workers set by the government to ensure dignity, but with entrepreneurs exempt to encourage such spirit while keeping employees from exploitation.

That's interesting. Has that motivation led more to activism or apathy? Have you voted since your first experience? If you see injustice or genocide or something, would you say that it pains you more now or have you become a little indifferent because of feeling helpless? I don't mean to bombard you with questions but I'm curious.

SWIM is the same in all those regards, except one: he feels much more inclined towards activism for 'peace on drugs, not war on drugs'

Good thread. SWIM was a bit of a political/news junkie and has definitely become much more apathetic as he tends to look at things now from a bit more of a broader, universal perspective IMO. He still cares about politics but has less of an interest in being consumed by the day to affairs, much of which tends to be fairly shallow and even juvenile.

Hmm...

I'm kind of big news junkie myself and it's next to impossible for me to extricate myself from that stuff. It's almost an obsession really because it occupies a lot of my thought. For DMT to have changed your news junkiness means that it must be a pretty powerful drug.

I suppose the only thing this has brought to light is the sentence for possessing this chemical is ridiculous. I could hospitalize someone and get away with it for less.

If anything it has taught me to be more independent from regulated civilization because if everyone obeyed the rules, then the rules would never improve.

I suppose the point is that you could hospitalize yourself by awakening a mental disorder or something.

I have a very simple philosophy for personal freedom; I deserve a complete right to my body and mind. I think I should be allowed to do anything I want as long as I don't impinge on the rights of others.

The problem is that this breaks down when you look at it in the context of 'society'. In the society we currently live in we are all bound together by institutions and a central government.

In this kind of society, anti-drug users can say; 'why should we foot the bill for you to do what you want?' This comes back to the point I made in the anti-Joe Rogan thread - if you allow the masses access to powerful chemicals they will undoubtedly abuse them, and someone has to help them right?

(It's worth noting that we are already footing the bill for alcoholics etc, and that this problem is not only linked to substance abuse, but the whole nature of 'communal care' - i.e for abuse survivors, support for people with disabilities etc).

The answer, in my opinion, is small, collective groups free of overriding institutions. This is why I like Libertarian Socialism. In this group new social contracts can be made and honoured, without any bitterness or prejudice.

The problem I struggle with is how to achieve this? I have become apathetic because I do not see the possibilty for our world to change. In this sense Libertarian Socialism is abstract, it's a collection of ideas rather than a movement. Some can say that it lacks direction because it brings together different types of anarchist, all with different ideas about how to achieve the end goal.

Now that I have realised this my answer is to minimise my contact with society (although not attempt to be completely independent), to use the benefits society gives me, and to primarily look after the concerns of myself and my group of friends.

So far the state hasn't imposed its will on me too strongly and as long as that doesn't happen I'll be reasonably happy. If it does happen then I may be forced to become more active.

Bastard ---> Yes both me and my friend are fans of Chomsky.

My theory is that of Crass,

Right wing, left wing... it's all the same fascistic games.
Government is government, and all government is the same.

LSD & SHROOMS mainly affected my political views most.. DMT just showed me the holographic aspects & that dimensions & waaaay more crazy phenomenon is out there.


Ive always been about anarchy.. these drugs just re-assured me. & showed me mind control was possible.. reincarnation.. OOBE NDE ect. ect..

way after all these realizations found on my own.. i stumbled upon David Icke.. he re-assured me that i wasnt crazy from my thoughts & i wasnt alone...

except for the reptilians that was kinda out there.. but i mean anything is possible.

so after seeing all his proof as well, its just obvious that the govt has us fucked up since the 60 if not earlier.. fucking us all whether we know it or not..