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Acacia Burkittii extraction log Options
 
shanedudddy2
#1 Posted : 4/29/2013 1:17:06 AM

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Location: Adelaide, Australia
Just yesterday, I made my way to the spot where they are natively found (100's of recorded specimen within a 10km area), a 3.5 hour drive each way, mind you.
I took samples of what I believed to be Burkittii.

There were 2 different types (one of those types had a tree and a shrub form. I took samples of both).

Type 1
- No tree form, only small or large shrub.
- Phyllodes appeared narrower, and more cylindrical.
- Cylindrical hard balls, some were spiked, up to around 2cm in diameter attached.
Hard balls. I believe they are old as many looked quite dead.

Type 2
- Has a tree and a shrub form.
- Phyllodes appear slightly larger in diameter, and were sort of flat along one side.
- Not sure what these are, but there were like these 4 sided chestnut type objects attached.

Both phyllode`s tasted quite bitter, and looked near identical.

I wish to use this thread to track the progress of my extraction, allowing other users to chime in with their advice.
My initial aim is to test for any alkaloids, with no real concern or aim of high yields.
Once I have determined alkaloids in a specific sample, then I will completely dry, powder and perform 4 X acid boils etc.
I have currently finished Step 2 of the following Tek, for both Type 1 and Type 2 (tree form).
I will complete the later steps this evening.

Initial Run
My method is the same for Type 1 and 2.
Step 1 (blending):
Blend the material as fine as I can. I couldn't get it too fine, as it was still a bit wet.
However, the phyllode`s are chopped, and already had a diameter a mm or so.
Even if I miss 50% of the alkaloids due to this rushed approach, that is satisfactory.
Step 2 (boiling):
Perform 2 acid boils, each an hour long. Add 250g of freshly chopped plant matter with 2000mls of water and 110mls of vinegar.
I then combined and reduced to ~750mls, then cooled the solution.
Step 3 (basing):
Create a basic solution by mixing a minimal amount of water in a separate glass jug to dissolve ~125g of Sodium Hydroxide.
Once the exothermic reaction has occurred, cool it down, and slowly add to the reduced acidic soup.
Step 4 (pulling):
Once cooled, add liquid to a mixing vessel, and then add 200mls of shellite.
Mix gently, but not vigerously, to prevent emulsion forming.
The pull of the naptha.
Step 5 (praying):
Pray and hope that the naphtha is cloudy and evaporates to yield active product, rather than 30mg of plant goop.

This is a Work in progress and I will be amending my initial post with further details and pictures tonight.

PICTURES:
First 3 are of Type 1, last 2 are of Type 2.
It may be hard to see the tips, but it`s much easier in person.
shanedudddy2 attached the following image(s):
Type1_Tree.JPG (4,726kb) downloaded 256 time(s).
Type1_Spike.JPG (3,750kb) downloaded 250 time(s).
Type1_Seeds.JPG (3,936kb) downloaded 247 time(s).
Type2_Tree.JPG (5,971kb) downloaded 246 time(s).
Type2_Spike.JPG (4,637kb) downloaded 250 time(s).
 

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Seldom
#2 Posted : 4/29/2013 4:00:43 AM

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sorry to say buster but if it's got ball shaped flowers, it's probly not burkittii, unless you're referring to morphology of the spikes .. sounds like a member of the juncifolia group or the related murrayana group

the 4 sided 'chestnut' things sound like you have a species of Hakea, but it may also be galls, which can be the product of insect infestation in acacias .. would need photos to tell properly

burtittii is said to flower late winter to mid spring
 
shanedudddy2
#3 Posted : 4/29/2013 6:38:00 AM

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No flowers on either of the specimens, the balls are what I deem to be the spikes, but the spikes appear to have fallen off most of the specimens.
I recall going to the spot earlier in the year, and there were spikes on the same sized balls, approximately 1cm in size...if that makes sense. What exactly are they called? :/

There were a lot of both types, and no other types that I could identify that would meet the basic Burkittii requirements (small mm or less diameter phyllodes with a curved/acuminate tip).

I am taking photos and hope to upload them in the next hour or so Smile
I am unsure if the photo's will be of a huge help, I don`t have a Micro lens for my SLR, and but hopefully they are good enough.

They definitely don't look like a galls to me, based on all of the galls I have seen in other acacia, I think you will agree.

Do Hakea grow abundantly in the a red dirt desert landscape?
Perhaps you can provide specific species suggestions based on the pictures Smile

Never the less, i`ll still continue on with the extractions Very happy
 
shanedudddy2
#4 Posted : 4/29/2013 1:10:13 PM

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Both type 1 and type 2 extraction tests have failed (yielded nothing but yellow goo, in very small amounts 40-60mg).
Will just wait for confusa and plant some floribunda seedlings around the place for the far future.
I believe I have tried every suspected plant on the acacia page within SA.
I have some paradoxa, which from nenn`s comments have no recorded history of testing, so I figure I`ll try that as my LAST ditch attempt /sigh.
 
acacian
#5 Posted : 4/30/2013 5:02:45 AM

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have you tested the goo?.. the top photo looks similar though the coiled pods suggest its not burkitti..the pods should only be slightly curved. its really quite difficult to analyse any of the features from that photo... Type 2, I am not 100% sure, though the lack of acuminate tips and the yellow colouring to the stems, suggest again, that it is probably not burkitti... I think nen's diagnosis should be awaited on though for confirmation

also just a suggestion, when taking photos of trees for identification it is good to keep in mind the key features that need to be examined- eg close ups of phyllodes - if possible showcasing the vein structure (though i know it often isn't depending on the light and camera), bark on trunk and stems ... photos like the first one are generally of little use unless there are other close ups to accompany.. I do think its unfortunate the lack of photos of burkitti available on the net for comparison with identificaiton. I'd like to try and get over there soon to get some.

also, I'm not sure how this would effect the dmt but 125g of sodium hydroxide seems WAY too much.. you should be able to use as little as 15-30g for a 750ml solution. keep in mind that "diggers" brand shellite is very poor form of naptha and is rubbish at pulling dmt unless it is warm/hot.. and when adding to a cooled base solution, it will cool very quickly and render the dmt insoluble.. so its a good idea to keep your base solution warm to hot so that the shellite remains so as well. ...one thing I do sometimes (and I don't like doing this for full spectrum, though when using shellite its not an issue as you wont be pulling full spectrum anyway) is after adding the warm/hot shellite to the base solution, add a little bit more sodium hydroxide again just to heat it up and then mix again. this usually gets good amounts in each pull for me and can get up to a gram in one pull.

good luck! hope you find something soon..
 
shanedudddy2
#6 Posted : 4/30/2013 6:57:12 AM

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Yeah, I know that Shellite isn`t the best. I usually extract with Toluene, then rextal with hot Shellite (for freeze precip).
Didnt try it as it looked like only plant wax's and fats, and smelt exactly like that, and not like DMT.
Will try the Paradoxa tonight. It seems nobody has tested it, long shot, I know.
I`ll use less Sodium Hydroxide as you have suggested. Cheers.
 
nen888
#7 Posted : 4/30/2013 7:42:11 AM
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..unfortunately i don't think either is A. burkitti..

the pods of burkitti are highly constricted between the seeds, which rules out type I

type 2, the 'phyllodes' look not right, though superficially similar..they are too needle like/cylindrical..i think it is a Hakea as Seldom suggested..

the only way to be really sure of ID is flowers/pods combination..
 
shanedudddy2
#8 Posted : 4/30/2013 7:54:54 AM

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Isn`t that also the time when alkaloids are reduced, sometimes absent. Razz
lol, it`s too far to go to check and mark a GPS co-ordinate for another time in the year hehe.
Bummer, must have spent ~50-100 hours on local sourcing searches, and have nothing but a lot of wasted solvents to show for it *cries*
Thanks anyways Smile
 
shanedudddy2
#9 Posted : 5/1/2013 1:21:23 AM

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Strangely enough, I scraped up the goo from Type 1, as it looked oily still.
I decided to try some, and it`s active. Very strange though, very big body high, minimal other effects except a cloudy thought process and very minor CEV's.
Not sure what`s in it, but too small of a yield to do any further study, but it aint DMT, but the body high felt quite similar.
Just thought that it`s an interesting side note.
 
 
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