Alright i have a question about phalaris. Lets assume there are 200 alkaloids in phalaris, this is only for illustration im sure it doesn't contain that many. A chemist would take a solvent mixture which he was aware of the dmt rf value for and run a column chromotography.

At the bottom of the column he would collect several fractions of the mixture of the column and have each in a separate jar. To see what each jar contained he would run a tlc on each jar. Lets say theoretically jar number 5 was shown to contain dmt. Now here is where the issue arises. Is there any possibility that there is a substance in jar number 5 that the tlc did not show the presence of, perhaps the presence of dmt masked it or something like that?

Or can you be absolutely sure that jar number 5 contains pure dmt and you just evaporate the solvent and smoke it.

Nimbus8...
Its called co-elution, and there may be several substances in jar 5 that have the same, or very similar rf values. Several other test can be done to attest to the purity of jar 5, such as melting point, boiling point, uv and visible spectrometry, but even if you are analyzing jar 5 by gc or lc mass spectrometry, it is very difficult to say for sure that it is pure. One of the most reliable assurances is if it forms a crystal-- That crystal has an extremely high likely-hood of being a pure substance.

I was wondering about the same thing actually, but my idea was to increase the quantity and decrease the area of jar5.

Let us say i collect 10 bags of wild phalaris, and juice it as much as i can, and put it into one pot. I do the basic extraction with vinegar baking soda and 96% alcohol at the end.

Now, since i had sooo much phalaris in so little place the end result should be much more also right? So at this point shouldnt crystals automatickally form? I think i have already seen people getting crystals from phalaris so my thoughts are what ever the quantity of the grass we use at the end crystals always form but sometimes they are so small (because the quantity was so small) that we dont see it? So if we would tons of phalaris, some big crystals should form?

^no. You will have oily goo with unwanted possibly toxic stimulant alkaloids left in the mix. I have said this over and over again. Why dont people get it? Alcohol is not a selective enough solvent for phalaris arundinacea.

Perhaps. But there are other factors controlling crystal formation. Other than the proper choice of solvent, the impurities in all the extra mass that has been extracted can have an effect on the ease of crystal formation. The single most important factor in producing large crystals is controlling the temperature and evaporation rates. If a small refrigerator is available that is not being used for food, you might try placing a closed lid jar of your extract in the freezer at the WARMEST setting possible, then if no crystals start to form by the next day, LOWER the temperature a little every day until you see some starting to form. Then HOLD this temperature setting. To make large crystals, SLOW growth is the most important factor. When growth appears to have stopped, you can lower the temperature more, or if at the coldest setting, removing the lid and allowing evaporation to occur can aid crystal growth (just don't evaporate to dryness). But it definitely takes time and patience to make large crystals; perhaps two weeks or more. Just be careful about moving the jar around too much; it needs to remain fairly still. I confess, I've been too impatient to carry it to the extreme I've just said. Maybe others will comment as to their experience.

^How much experience do you have working with this wild grass? It all sounds nice in theory..

ust becasue you get a crystals does not mean anything becasue you are still using a less selective solvent that will pull things like hordenine and gramine and everything else in there. If you have 1% hordenine and 1% DMT than pulling with alcohol is not a super great way to do an extraction.

Is there anyplace one could send in a sample of jar 5 for purity testing without suffering legal consequences?

you could send it to your brain?

And risk intaking toxins? No thank you lol.

I highly doubt there are toxins tbh. I have bioassayed full spectrum arundinacea extracts a number of times without anything I would call toxic occuring. There is just a stimulant effect that lingers that is not pleasant for me..and I assume it could be due to hordenine and np solvent pulls at room temperature have eliminated some of it..but still there is other tryptamines and beta carbolines present along with the DMT the dilute the DMT portion a great deal. So far none of them are known toxins from what I gather..

It is best to be cautious though and assume there is still a possability that there could be something toxic in there..even if it is unlikely.

Swim doesn't want a pseudo dmt experience with compounds x y and z in it. Swim wants a pure dmt trip. If the sublimation point of dmt was known it would be incredibly easy to isolate.

we would all like to isolate pure DMT from wild phalaris arundinacea. This was my main goal origionally, but then I found the experience sort of interesting on it's own anyway and found there are other tyrptamines that seem interesting as well that I would like to explore..but still the problem of how to isolate each one arises..I dont have a sublimator at this point in time but I would like to get one in the future for this sort of work.

The known high alkaloid strains like big medicine and turkey red, and other species like aquatica and brachystachys are not hard to grow and will yeild high ammounts of DMT in a cleaner profile..so you might want to look into that route also.

The TLC analysis on my wild arudinacea extract showed very little DMT..there was more 5meoNMT than there was DMT..and equal ammounts NMT..and much much more beta carbolines. You are going to need a lot of the grass to get a decent ammount of DMT but it is doable..someone just has to do it. Probly mid summer harvest after a dry period would be the ideal time to harvest for peak tryptamine content.

There was a PDF here somewhere that a guy posted i think he got something pure out of phalaris but i am pretty sure it was not nn DMT or at least his trip report is nothing like the DMT reports on this forum more like something of a 5meo?

if you are referring to this .pdf https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=28869 , these experiments are done with brachystachys..at least the author states the grass is brachystachys. brachystachys has more reliable and clean alkaloid profile than arundinacea.

but two things are not in cue with what i have read on brachystachys and the paper of fourthripley. i remember that benzyme analyzed sample of brachystachys and found that dmt and gramine are present but no 5-meo.

also fourthripley got really small yields, and than there are the figures on internet about the alkaloid content of 3% in brachystachys.