But learning it's language will mean leaving much behind – parochial notions of logic, causality and many more. I don't know if we NEED hallucinogens in order to transcend some of the most immediate boundaries. Quantum mechanics embodies so many blatant contradictions and that was developed, I assume, without a great deal of chemical assistance.

Things that would be seen as contradictions in the macroscopic world aren't really seen as such at the subatomic level. An electron being in every possible location in an orbital around a nucleus - simultaneously, though seen as being actually true an not just a sort of metaphor, doesn't really bother anyone since this is all provided for by the electron's wave function.

Oh right, electrons are waves. They're also particles. And they're always both – simultaneously. But again, this appears to cause no one any sleepless nights.

In fact, you really have to love the way we humans exploit phenomena about which we really are completely clueless. For example, according to an electron's wave function, it will occasionally appear at certain locations that the function says are strictly possible despite the fact that there is no physical path for the electron to get there.

IOW, there might be a circuit, then a small barrier made of some insulating material that the electron cannot penetrate. The circuit then continues on the other side. In a few instances, an electron in the first circuit will disappear from there and re-appear in the second circuit. It didn't pass through the insulator since we know that is impossible. No. It simply ceased to exist at point A and resumed its existence at point B without traversing the distance in between.

Completely bizarre.

Also the basis of many electronic circuits in use today.

But it is one thing to be a monkey pushing a lever and getting a treat and quite another to understand the process behind it. We are SO far being from able to actually grasp what is happening in situations like this that the universe will have to wait a bit longer for an intelligent audience.

An intelligent audience mmm that might not be for some time great thread by the way and welcome to the nexus!

when I was on pharmahuasca a while back I felt the universe speaking to me. In fact every time I took pharma I felt this. I understood it telepathically a little, though there were no words and no concise message as such. It was simply as though it wanted contact - a constant form of dialogue. So instead of speaking to myself when thinking I could speak to it and it to me...

I did feel like I needed to learn its language though. And still haven't. I try to listen sometimes, and sometimes I can tell it's speaking to me. The main issue is that it's a subtle voice in which it speaks. Ubiquitous but so subtle that you have to stop all the chatter and noise to distinguish it.

And what will it say to you once you hear it? Perhaps that you are finally free to love and live.

I don't think the scientific paradoxes of QM are even close to what we have to overcome in order to *speak* to the universe. I think they are just another level of confusion to keep us from it. Don't get me wrong. I'm a scientist myself, or I was, and I do believe in science and it's utility. I just don't think it relates to spiritual matters. It's like using a screw-driver to hammer in a nail...

Ah, but some of the parallels with Zen are simply eery.

The essence of Buddhism is it's ineffability. As a result, much is often explained by way of affirming what is clearly contradictory - sound familiar? The purpose of this is to push you past conceptualization since this is probably this single biggest obstacle on the path to enlightenment - which is probably what you mean by science being an impediment.

And yet the very stone we trip over may be the one that leads us down a new path.

This is one of the things that brought me to give my psychadelic experiences more value. And also this may be the very foundation that can lead to a bridge between science and ...spirituality?

I have read an article associating the chakra system with the glands of the body (very interesting), and also a couple regarding ASC (alternative states of consiousness) - which all in all I think is a manifestation of the proven notion that macroscopic and subatomic dimensions of reality actually behave quite differently.

Habituation is strong and people dont give these experiments (the double slit experiment, entaglement etc) too much attention. But i think these experiments tell us a lot about reality... And indeed i think that one needs to take a step away from the material, alert, problem solving state of consiousness in order to further ones understanding of this "universe-language" you mention.

I have always thought that thats why "spiritual people" in say.. India, many times live on the streets and do not wish to own anything and - thereby keep their distance from the blinding conceptualisation of owning etc.

Its interesting however.. I have a friend, who is more into material satisfaction, and he has completely blocked out 3/4 times when smoalking changa, and the one non-blocked experience was a very mild shroomy kind of thing.