A quote by the great Alan Watts. I have used psychedelic substances for quite some time now, and have had more than a handful of revelations. My most recent, and possibly profound realization has made me think that this quote is on point.
To give a bit of background, the main reason that I have used psychedelics so often is because I was preoccupied with obtaining a more 'accurate' or deeper understanding of reality. Every trip I had brought me further behind the scenes, better able to analyze events as patterns of cause and effect, more apt at 'seeing things for what they are'. I value these insights because they have enabled me to make better informed lifestyle choices and decisions in all aspects of my life.
My recent realization is that nothing is better than anything else, and nobody is better than anyone else, because earth has an expiration date, and even our universe itself has an expiration date. Everything accomplished will eventually be destroyed. So, WHY? Is it better to keep getting deeper and deeper, or is it better to just live in the moment and just BE?


So my question to all of you nexians is this: Do you agree with this quote or not, and why. If you happen to agree, what is the message that you should hang up over? In other words, how do you know when to hang up the phone?

who cares?
it's my phone, I can continue chatting on it if I want, even if no one's there.


I like Alan Watts as much as the next guy, but I don't necessarily agree with everything he says. Same with McKenna, RAW, Leary, Kesey, etc. etc.

the psychedelic experience needn't be a "spiritual enlightenment", it can be an occasional perception realignment or whatever. Some people have them just for kicks, oh well.


besides...what was his real assertion? that after you get the message, you'll never used the phone again? most people tend to keep using their phones.

I don't really agree with this quote. Maybe I'm not ready to agree with this quote?

I guess it does depend on what your goal is, what you want to accomplish with psychedelics, like you mentioned.

For me, I see them as a way to help me to be a better person. I am often confronted with truths about myself that I cannot avoid any longer. We all live with delusions we create, and psychedelic use helps to reveal these delusions.

Beyond personal growth, they are also a way I rejuvenate myself. For most people living in the society we currently have, it's easy to get run down, jaded, and generally feel washed out. So, I take a trip, reorient myself, recharge, and rekindle my wonder of the world we are graced with.

These two things are why I trip, and I don't think either one will I reach a final point and say, "Welp, I'm perfect now, I can stop progressing" or "So, I'll be infinitely full of life for the rest of my days, now."

So, at least for me, I see psychedelics as a tool of life, and not something with an end goal.

But that's just me.

"Drink deep or drink not." We can play with quotes all day. Some messages need repeating, like after a long break from the molecule you get back into your old horse poo, pick up the phone and call again, and again, and again, etc ad nauseum. You'll "get the message", sure, but many, many more await in the endless journey of Discovery.

Or something like that.

I can actually agree with the underlying message of this quote. I know from my own experiences when you partake on a regular basis the experiences can begin to get a feel of being routine and predictable. There came a time in my life when it felt right to slow it down a bit and soak in reality and life as it comes rather than trying to constantly try and put everything under the microscope. If your experiences get stagnant due to perpetual use then what is the point in pushing yourself to continue? Sometimes I think less is more and I know for me personally reducing the frequency of my psychedelic excursions have actually made them more significant. To me dabbling in altered states is like going to church. Sometimes the soul needs to be rejuvenated and cleansed with these experiences, but partaking in them every day (at least for me) can actually nullify some of the benefits of the experience which I enjoy/need to take out of them in order for them to be worthwhile. "Hang up the phone" may not accurately reflect my own personal views, but as I said before I can understand the underlying message.

I disagree with it, but for some it might apply. Thats fine. Its all just what people individually resonate with really.

I don't think it really makes much sense though... For one thing, there is no 'one message'. There is infinite, and the messages are always changing IMO. To me things like ayahuasca and mushrooms are a lifelong quest... I can't see why in the world i'd ever swear off such powerful plant allies because of the weird idea that i've attained an understanding of "The Message" they provide...If anything, truly believing that would seem like a sign that i completely did NOT get what they really have to offer ^___^


"Is it better to keep getting deeper and deeper, or is it better to just live in the moment and just BE? "

To me, those two are the same thing

I can also appreciate the rationale behind this kind of philosophy, but I agree with others here who say that there isn't necessarily a singular definitive message to receive. I mean, the quote relies on this for there to be the message, and not just a message.

Besides, in this case, like others have mentioned, the messages these drugs have to offer are worth becoming reacquainted with from time to time.



I agree completely. I don't think you just get the message and get to some point at which you understand everything psychedelics have to offer and have nothing to gain from them. On the other hand, it's a process that I don't think should be or even can be rushed. After all, tools can be misused.

^^this !

I agree that sometimes you have an experience that is very profound in one way or another and continuing to take psychedelics in that particular phase of integration or development might not make sense. However in a later phase, months or years later, it might make perfect sense to pick up the receiver and dial that number again.

I've been using psychedelics on and off for over ten years. I've had several breaks for over a year or three, and several phases of using them almost every weekend.

I don't believe that we can ever reach a state in which further development is no longer possible and so I don't believe there will ever be a moment where I will stop using them forever.

Whether the universe has an expiration date is debatable. Even cosmologists have theories of multiverses and things like that. If this time-space-bubble bursts or falls back into a gib gnab other things will still exist. We don't fully understand how things are connected to each other and thus don't really know what is recorded and what importance consciousness has, if it has any. Creation and destruction may be only superficial appearances.

got to go, my phone's ringing...

I vibe with this statement. My days of mega-dose-one inhalation breakthroughs are over, I can say with certainty. Although, I will still continue to do psychedelics every so often, including DMT. Imo, psychedelics, especially DMT, the message is always there, though often misinterpreted. Once it slams you in the face, repeatedly, stripped to your very essence, dissentegrated and spread throughout the expanse of all-that-is, you will receive the message, loud and clear. (many here know what im talking about).

tat tvam asi

Great convo/debate

This site and community is quite intellectual. I love it

I wish i could throw my 2 cents in, however i dont feel i have enough firsthand experience at getting the message to hang up the phone. Actually, thats worth my 2 cents.

Sometimes the message is that something from there doesn't want you around and wants you to hang up the phone...I get that message every now and then, but I let it go to voicemail...I don't check voicemail

I think I totally agree with the quote.

Because, in my opinion, you can get the message, and hang up. But you may forget the message.

Also, it doesn't say, "hang up the phone, disconnect the line, and throw the phone off a bridge"

You may still receive 1000's of calls.

It's just up to you if you choose to answer again, or are willing to hear what the caller has to say

1. Make the Phone Call
2. Receive the 'Message'
3. Hang up the Phone.
4. Record the 'Message' at the Nexus (so you don't forget)
5. If you find yourself 'Off Grid'...Get yourself the latest 'Smart Phone' and Redial the Original Number...

alternatively;

5.1. Sit alone in the dark and call collect...

Maybe for Watts, he was able to retain the message.
Over time I fall back into games. Small desires creep in and take more of a hold then they should. I sit back down and listen to the message again.
The little life games are sneaky, they get back in and you don't even notice it.

Sometimes I have to answer the phone every month, sometimes I can go 3-4 months without and live a fairly happy productive life.

What if applying the whole quote to LIFE itself?

Natives say:"It is a good day to die."
But that's figurative.

I stick around for a while, feeling puppy

The thing with me is that I can never quite 'get the message'. Each time I'm on the phone new subjects are talked about and that means I have to call again later on to ask what those things were all about.

So I cannot imagine that I ever 'get the message'.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

no, but it implies that there's no need to use the phone again.

the phone is a metaphorical tool (psychedelics), the message is the figurative "enlightenment" one supposedly
gets from psychedelics (frankly, I'm a bit skeptical of that traditional viewpoint).
Watts is a bit vague and cryptic in some of his writings, and this quote is no exception; but,
I suppose he leaves it up to the reader to form his/her own opinion.

That^^ Or perhaps i"ve had the message all along and the person on the other end of the phone is presenting me with new interpretations of my original message.

Bingo

Like an infinitely faceted jewel of ever-evolving complexity and beauty, yet still a jewel.

You know it makes sense bro! The thing that concerns me, is that if i use my phone too much, i might get an unexpected bill through my letterbox in the shape of delusional lunacy.
In spite of that potential fact, Mr Peabody going on about his heart slowing down in another thread has reminded me that i need to make a long distance phonecall tonight.