i am drinking a pharma - ayahuasca tomorrow night

and am wondering if one can drink too much syrian rue seed tea, inhibitor ??

twice i have drank inhibitor, but never with dmt also.

once i drank 5 grams of rue seed tea, but did not crush seeds, and also threw the seeds out after brewing !

once i drank 4.5g of caapi tea (somehow managed to get a hold of a little branch)


FOR tomorrow i have brewed 9g of rue seed into two cups of pure water, some lemon juice.
(Seeds have been crushed down)


not sure if i will drink seeds and ALL !
probably drink it in shots over an hour or two.

BUT can i drink too much inhibitor ???

hello,

you can definitely drink to much Rue and if you do your gonna be real sick. I would guess that 9g of properly brewed rue is gonna be pretty heavy.

For a Pharma journey, 2,5-3g of Rue is usually enough for full inhibition for me (I weight around 80 kilos / 160 pounds). Nowadays I don´t have any desire to drink more Rue, because I know that 2,5-3g is plenty; I am also afraid I would get sick after more Rue.... Be safe and don´t get sick yourself

sweet thanks guys <3

yeah i think i will decant the brew and not drink the actual crushed rue seed, probably try another brew laters with that sediment !

and only drink about 1/4 of the total brew .
in small shots.
as i said over about an hour.
and i guess when i feel the rue tea settled in ill drink the dmt - this is my first pharma ayahuasca

ive talked a bit about doing this finally tomorrow is the night : unless the unforseen' intervenes and the time isn't right

if your making tea i think that drinking the brewed rue seeds as well is pointless because if you have brewed it well all the goodies should be in the tea.

enjoy your journey

please dont drink the seeds lol. Its just a bad idea all around. And 9g is a ridiculously high dose. If you brew the seeds right then you wont need anywhere near that much. Its not physically dangerous at all at these amounts, but 9g would have pretty much anyone puking their brains out for hours on end. It would be very very psychedelic at that dosage and the amount of nausea would be overpowering

You can have too much rue. I would not drink the actual seeds, much more likely to cause nausea that way. Personally I find anything over 5 grams to be overkill. The way you will know you've had too much, is the extreme dizzyness and nausea when you move at all, even moving your head side-to-side can be sickening, and also you probably won't be able to walk straight, as if drunk.

I have used very high doses of extracted harmala salts before - doses of 600 to 1200 mg. If I took that much on its own, I would usually fall asleep during the comeup and then awake two or three hours later to find everything covered in fractal visuals. One time a friend took 1200 mg at a festival and then ate some mushrooms. At the peak of the trip, he was so intoxicated by the harmala that he fell to the ground, and his girlfriend had to help pull him off the dance floor because he couldn't stand up on his own.

Case study: ingestion of tea made from 100g of syrian rue;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18803088

The study doesn't read healthy at all, so yeah, you can drink too much syrian rue.

^ 100g


Syrian rue and for that matter, ayahuasca, is very physically dangerous with increasing the dose. I will have to disagree with universecannon on that matter; they ARE potentially deadly. It's interesting to see someone survive after 100g of Rue. Who knows what the LD50 is.


After about 5g, you will start developing nausea. Beyond 7g you will be knocked to the floor pretty much.


Be very very careful with Rue. If you do not have a tolerance with it or experience with it, you can put yourself into a state of PURE HELL and this hell is relentless. You can cry and beg for mercy all you like, it will not cease for a good 8 hours. Vomiting, tremors, anxiety, paralysis, tension, all sorts of things. For 8 hours straight. Like stubbing your toe. Over and over and over and over again, the pain never dulling or calming ever. You will not be able to move and even if you do, moving is useless, it will not help in the least. Literally buy the ticket, take the ride. No other option.

you can drink too much water and die. Of course you can drink too much syrian rue, but its way beyond the amounts that are reasonable for the affects people are aiming for... the thread was pertaining to the ingestion of 9grams and the question of whether this was too much, which is why i said in this case 'too much' isn't physically dangerous at all- as far as we know

and i disagree with "after about 5g you will start developing nausea". There are many things that factor into this, and many will get nausea on much lower amounts than even that. There is a lot of variation in how different dosages affect different people

A friend of mine swallowed 15 gr of crushed seeds. He vomited twice, but overall he like the psychedelic effects.
I regularly drink more than 6 gr Rue tea. I also once drank 12 gr Rue tea WITHOUT vomiting or even feeling ill.
I don't know if its my metablism or my Rue, but i need at least 5 gr to fully inhibit MAO.
Recently i drank 7gr Rue with 7 gr Mimosa, and it was like nothing (no purge, no nothing)
I NEVER purge on my own brews even if i take strong doses.

my first experience with rue was I ate about 10g crushed seeds. I vomitted UNCONTROLLABLY and relentlessly for 45 minutes, followed by intermittent barfing every once in a while. I was practically in another reality when I was barfing, semi conscious. It was like sleep-barfing. I was a zombie with only one thing to do in life.... scream barf forever. I was more dizzy and sick than I have ever been in my life. Any slight movement felt like agony because it would cause my head to stir. I was bedridden and practically unable to move for 12 hours. It was hell. I felt ok afterwards, but I would say that I took too much, yes.

Yeah I took 6g or 7g rue my first time thinking it couldn't be too bad. It came on with an intense empathogen-entactogen effect. Then it dived into the very same sleep barf state you describe. Hilarious in a way.


With a tolerance to rue it's a very different story. I've built up a tolerance and now I can drink 12g rue tea and feel spicy. There seems to be a semi-permanent tolerance effect to it once you drink it regularly. It feels like my body has adapted to whatever Rue does.

I could only imagine the psychedelic barf-zombification that would occur if you had drank that much with no tolerance. Strangely the nausea and ataxia and dizziness fade away over time leaving a crystal clear crisp electrical buzz. To really get the best effects from plants like Rue and Ayahuasca it's best to have a relationship with it and really get a feel for the headspace. Then these problems just cease to be problems at all.


I only need 3g to inhibit MAO even now. Harmalas have strong dopamine releasing properties as a direct action of their own alongside MAO-B inhibition and A; at higher doses losing their selectivity for the subtype IIRC. They also hit AChE and NMDA and in fact a wide range of receptors, even the a7 receptor indirectly. The combined effect isn't pretty when you first start drinking Rue/Aya but it gets better over time. The bliss is to be found the further you go into the experience over a long period of time IME.


Harmala and Iboga share many similarities in the way they interact with the brain and their motor/visual effects too. People die on Iboga alone. Harmala is still very different and as seen 100g rue is survivable - I wonder if 100g Iboga bark would be? Either way both essences produce intense ataxia and nausea at higher doses along with a total loss of coordination - maybe due to glutamate like alcohol? The body acclimatises to this after a few years of drinking it. I find 7g is my sweet spot now whereas before 4g would start knocking me out.

wow, that is wierd embrace. I've noticed the exact opposite; reverse tolerance. But at the same time, higher doses do become more manageable or "functional"

i took harmalas (usually rue) daily for a year and a half, and i just needed less and less to get there. Now 2g is more like 3g, and is often a full blown out of body visionary dosage of rue for me, if i lay down in silent darkness and let myself enter the trance. I think just .5g will activate a noticeable amount of dmt. For pharma, i used to take around 150-200mg harmalas and 50 or more mg of dmt...now i get similar affects from 100mg harmalas and just 20mg dmt...And this change has all happened in less than 2 years 0_o


I think my diet has something to do with it as well though, not just the daily dosing. I probably get an insane amount of plant flavanoids, which have MAO inhibiting properties. I also take a lot of melatonin daily, and almost always take it with psychedelics. Melatonin does many fascinating things, but even alone it produces this subtle beta carboline/tryptamine affect for me that manifests more readily with practice over time, and at higher doses than normal(i'm convinced we're all deficient in it but i wont get into that, lol)

If i take it before bed, i'll wake up in the morning with that typical harmala visual shutter-effect when i change the focus of my vision. Melatonin partly metabolizes into pinoline, an MAOI (possibly a tiny amount of 5meo to), and for some reason, after working with very high doses for a long time, simply meditating on melatonin can lead to ayahuasca type experiences at times

yeah I never had any tolerance and I microdosed daily for like 18 months and was drinking full doses of ayahuasca 1-2 and up to sometimes even 3 nights a week. You must be taking a lot of it daily to be getting tolerance.

"To really get the best effects from plants like Rue and Ayahuasca it's best to have a relationship with it and really get a feel for the headspace. Then these problems just cease to be problems at all."

It just sounds to me like you have tolerance from macrodosing too much. Saying the problems just go away is like saying take mushrooms every day and the heavier aspects of the trip go away..well yeah..tolerance.

Why not just take less harmalas without that same level of tolerance?

lol. Yeah, it is pretty funny, especially since it was long enough ago that I don't really remember how terrible it really felt at the time, but I recollect the fact that it was unbelievably intense purging.




Yeah same here, and with dmt as well. Actually, my body has adapted a lot to dmt. When I first started taking dmt, I always felt like I HAD to lie down when it kicked in or else..... I just wouldn't be able to function at all. But now I can withstand high doses and physically function just fine, if not enhanced.

Interestingly, I have also found that I have developed an aversion to high doses of dmt over time, preferring toward the subtler harmalas, which are enough to get in to a good psychedelic headspace. Now I find higher doses of dmt to be chaotic and emotionally distressful. I don't know if it's because my physiology has changed with a lot of use, and my body doesn't tolerate it well, or if I'm just more upset now than I used to be because of unrelated progressing health problems. But lately I find that if I take more than a couple grams of mimosa, I become unpleasantly emotional and I'm hoping the effects will wear off. It's almost like I don't need dmt to get in to a good meditative, psychedelic state, and the actual psychedelic state now feels like the volume on that part of my brain has been turned up too high. Or it could be that dmt aggravates my health problem, which is chronically pinched nerves and muscles in my back. The problem gets aggravated because dmt seems to cause vasocontriction, and muscle cramps, and nerve stimulation, all of which aggravate my condition and can cause a lot of pain, as well as a crappy emotional state. I always feel shitty when my back flares up, and since dmt causes that to happen, I now feel crappy when I'm on dmt, so it seems. Not all the time, but I am reluctant to take it. Harmalas alone don't cause this problem. Anyway....

My wife dosed w 4g rue tea and 3g mimosa tea. Her experience was close to yours. body sweat, shakes, violent puking, and pure misserable for many hours. vommits when being still were spaced about 3-5 minutes apart for the first 3 hours. Then 10-20 min apart for the next several. I really felt bad for her. Luckily the mimosa was likely puked before full effect as the dmt aspect was very light for her. I can't imagine being in fractal hell while violent puking every couple minutes for 8+ hours

Once my wife dosed 0,5g (!) of Rue tea in the morning, fell asleep 30 minutes later for an hour or so, then feeling pretty sedated for the rest of the day... Some people just seem to be very sensitive to Rue.

I wonder what would other fellow female psychonauts say about their sensitivity to Harmalas...