Do you feel profound sorrow for Source/God/Creator/all spirits/souls?

Background on me before getting to the crux of my question. I seemed to have been borne without a capacity for blind faith. I was not raised in any religion. I have watched from a distance others passion for various religions and beliefs. I have seen good and bad come from various belief systems. Most of my life I have not had a need or use for the concept of 'Source', 'God, 'Spirit', etc.

I am however curious. As I am getting older, naturally, I do ask the big questions:

What am I
What is the nature of existence
Why am I
etc

Many belief systems share concept of a source/god/etc. One of the deepest and most interesting expanded versions of this concept is the Law of One material:

Law of One Books
Law of One Condensed Guide


My question is posed mostly to others who have a familiarity with the above subject matter. However, the same question can be posed to any belief system that has a Source/God/Creator/Divine Being.

Does anyone else feel profound pity and deep sorrow for an Infinite Creator, and thus for all souls?

This is the problem I have with religions and spiritual beliefs: all(?) have a singular god/creator/entity at the top which consists of all that is. I fundamentally feel sorry for and pity anything which is all knowing and singular in nature. For in that, I can only see infinite loneliness and boredom. It even makes sense that an entity that is all knowing and singular would want to break apart pieces of itself to 'forget' so that it could experience joy, or pain, or companionship -- even if those concepts are a mere illusion and distraction from the emptiness that being all knowing and alone must be.

I truly am confused by the world around me. Most people find comfort in the concept of a singular entity who loves us and provides a path for us to travel to 'rejoin' it. For me it is the ultimate demotivator. It makes me want to strive to go down, not up, the karmic food-chain and away from self awareness. Or to find a 'switch' to truly die at a soul level. I feel, at a sub-conscious level, that I have lived a seemingly infinite number of lives and cycles through the karmic chain and just want the cycle to stop.

Here is what I suspect has happened nearly countless times:

I have a long and troubled life searching for meaning. I die... I rejoin my higher self... I recall everything, possibly as HH and RA have stated.... I still feel ultimate sorrow for the 'one' and therefore for all its creation including myself....I have no desire to incarnate again so I stay for as long as I can stand it in this state...when I can't stand it any longer I incarnate again...eventually I can't stand it and do what is needed to climb to the next dimension until I rejoin 'the one'... In my ultimate sorrow I choose to break apart again for the countless time... I slowly work my way up the karmic cycle back to being human...rinse and repeat. The above feeling so strong it almost breaks the 'veil' separation and forgetting that is my current life.

I know the above will sound extremely depressing and outrageous to many or most here. I have discussed this problem with others on many occasions, including loved ones of various faiths. I have yet to hear a method that resonates with me -- how to view a singular/all knowing entity with anything but the deepest of sorrow and in turn the deepest of sorrow for myself and everyone. I have all but stopped trying to find meaning in life, a purpose for being, or spirituality that works for me. It seems to always lead me back to this fundamental problem. So I have gone long periods of trying to ignore the real meaningful questions in life.

I desire to be positive and have a positive impact on the world around me but ultimately am Spiritually Lost.

---

Possibly related to the above and interesting read for those who hold belief in the we are all one concept and struggle with why there is so much negative and suffering in this world:

Hidden_Hand Thread
Condensed Hidden_Hand Responses pulled from the 200+ page monster thread

Welcome to the club.

A long time ago i quit thinking about something other than what is. What i expirence and what others expirence, and the true nature/name/linguistic name (effective communication at its core) of things seems like a better pursuit of my spiritual affairs.

Which led me down many paths, none absolute.

One thing that really resonated was this little bit-



Now i'm not here to put confucianism on a pedestal, because like all spiritual philosophies it has its flaws, mainly for me, the way women fit into society, and blind faith/trust of authority figures, no matter how moral/ethical they act. Among other bits and pieces, but the main concepts of confucianism are useful for healthy spiritual growth, at least for me.

But, that quote is true enough for me. People (myself included) tend to get lost, and sometimes for good, seaking absolutism in whatever respect. In this case were talking about a supreme being, a creator, or the like.

My take on that fetish is trying to find the true nature of all this, and not having the answers, the ability to find them, or the language to communicate it.

So, just focus on the now, whats around you, yourself, who you care about, how your actions affect others, how you can help others in need. IMHO, its a far more productive use of spiritual efforts than musing on ad infinum ultimates.

I think the idea that there is a god is flawed, not in that it isn't true, just people are asking the wrong questions, using the wrong language, because its inherently an intangible affair.

You pick up bits and pieces from all spiritual traditions, and disregard all the stuff about afterlife, and focus on morality, ethics, and living your life to the best of your ability and to benefit those around you in need of it most. Thats my take, i think asking questions, or the beliefs some peole hold about absolute intangible concepts, is just a waste of time.

Your here right now, and thats all that matters. The more your thoughts deviate away from what feels real to you, you lose precious time to live life to the fullest, feel happy/content with it all, and lose sight of others around you. Its a path to isolationsim, detachment, nihilism, complatency, loneleness, depression, the works.

hope something in my ramblings resonates, just wanted to drop that quote on you. It seemed like a bit of truth relevant to your questions, and something i try to adhere to every waking moment.

When all parts are experienced as a whole, there is no ego to experience sorrow.

"What better way for "God" to know himself than to divide his awareness so that "he" can observe objectively as creator and subjectively as creation?"


"One of the first things we learn is that emanation consists of a hierarchy of awareness. The Kabbalah explains that the Ein-Sof (Logos, Brahman, whatever) made ten emanations called Sephiroth, vessels to contain the light (consciousness) pouring into them from Consciousness-Without-An-Object's imagination. These vessels weren't able to contain this outpouring, and in what Kabbalists describe as a "cosmic catastrophe", the vessels shattered in into innumerable pieces and scattered throughout the realms of hyperspace, each fragment containing a spark of divine light (that's us). The main task of every Kabbalist is to "raise the sparks" of his or her own separated consciousness to reunite with the Ein-Sof that emanated them."

"Every sentient entity in the multiverse is both an observer and an object of perception, and the source from which they emanate is the Primary Observer, which is unadulterated Consciousness itself. Before emanation, perception can not take place because perception involves both an observer and that which is observed."

and

"[The universe is apparently] constructed (and thus in such as way as to be able) to see itself. But in order to do so, evidently it must first cut itself up into at least one state which sees, and at least one other state which is seen. In this severed and multilated condition, whatever it sees is only partially itself...But, in any attempt to see itself as an object, it must, equally undoubtedly, act so as to make itself distinct from, and therefore, false to, itself. In this condition it will always partially elude itself." (55)

"Thus consciousness is prior to observation. Combine this logical necessity with emanation and we see that whatever the Cosmic Mind imagines cannot be separated from its source. It follows then, that as the matter-energy created within this explosive act of imagination expands and fragments, becoming ever more complex, each emerging monad of fresh awareness perceives as a subjective fractal of the objective One Mind in whatever dimension it finds itself. Hence universe becomes Multiverse."

The Cracking Tower by Jim DeKorne

i resonate with this strongly , i feel sad too , thats all i can add to this thread

You may have arrived too quickly at your conclusion of pointlessness.

For starters, remember that our minds are puny and cannot fathom the ultimate purpose of existence. Apparently, it was worth doing. To conclude that it's an empty form of universal escapism rather than a purposeful act of meaningful creation may actually say a lot more about you and your mindset than about the universe itself.

Think of all the living things, on all worlds, through the whole history of the universe. Now imagine all the living: the striving, yearning, achieving, failing; the discovering, losing, learning, longing; all the pain, pleasure, joy, desolation; the warmth of a billion suns on the welcoming skin of a quadrillion unique species. All the living stories. All the meaning.

Are you quite sure that all of this is rendered meaningless by the brooding of one lonely universe? It may in fact be the opposite: that the universal mind managed to swing a deal where it got an almost infinite number of meaningful lives to balance out its one eternally lonesome one. And perhaps it's not lonesomeness at all; it could be something more like longing; a deep, unfulfillable longing, the thing that drives it to explore ever deeper the recesses of its great Self, every new living thing a frontier.

i resonate with this strongly too ,

Couldnt have said it much better myself.

I know when I breakthrough on DMT, much of what you say here Guyomech, is actualized during the experience, and all of it hits me like a tona bricks. That "longing" seems to be the driving force behind many of my experiences; this intense longing to "BE" and to "experience" mixed with a form of love that is both frightening and ecstatic

Thats interesting, I find the notion of continuity between all things to be a comforting thought more than a lonely one. For me, the idea that I am a singular being trapped inside my head, experiencing my entire existence alone is a far more lonely idea. A sort of solipsism, a table in hell for one.

When I consider the notion that "all is one", I get excited thinking about these massive and interconnected systems without any central hierarchy.... a sort of internet of existence. It truly blows my mind. Even the most simple of systems are so interdependent on everything else to exist... a flower for example does not exist without the entire ecosystem of weather patterns and soil deposits and gravity, etc to support it. Its the opposite of lonely for me... the amazing notion that this entire universe exists to support itself through these wonderfully complex and interdependent systems. Love it.

I first noticed this line of thinking I believe, oddly enough, watching one of those Planet Earth documentaries years ago. I noticed how nature seems to find a way to keep itself in check, preventing populations from overpowering others with these bizarre and absolutely mind-blowing checks and balances. The idea got further driven home by Alan Watts lectures. I am a happy camper supposing that I and everything else is basically the same thing. Not lonely at all.


Your mileage may vary... though I would suggest considering the notion from multiple perspectives

I used to wonder as you if "being one" translates to profound sorrow or boredom or something to that extent. Though of course, I'm still in no position to say, after my first full white light merging with the godhead, when time slowed to halt before seemingly stopping completely, it became startling clear to me in that instant that boredom is a function of time. With no time to elapse, there can be no boredom. Food for thought

Thanks to all for the feedback. Guyomech, I really enjoyed your response.



I reread my post and it does sound quite bleak. I do not believe existence is pointless. I just do not understand it. I struggle with the 'all is one' concept when trying to think beyond the veil and limitations of my current understanding. When I push hard to understand source / infinities, the further the feeling of despair I find in it.



You nailed it! When I take a hard look at the 'we are all one' concept I do see the surface level joy and enthusiasm for the idea. I see the appeal to be part of a whole (I've seen seperation from source refereed to as the original wound). Where it falls apart for me is when I try to really understand what source is -- I quickly get mind-looped trying to understand infinity:

If all the atoms in all the galaxies what we understand to be existence is a universe and if you have as many universes as there were atoms you have a multiverse, and if you have as many multiverses as atoms you have a megaverse and all that doesn't get you between 1 and 2 on the scale to infinity/source. Somewhere within that contemplation is more questions:

What is the limitation of human existence and perspective?
Is there a limitation of source perspective?
Why would source need to or want to create parts of itself with a veil to experience itself and does it have to do with the answer to question #1 and #2?

If infinity is a source perspective then finding a single universe which has one atom in a slightly different place that doesn't exist in that exact state a gazillion other times would be cause for jubilation. That is if it hadn't already experienced that jubilation an infinite number of times prior.



Very very true! The harder life is the more important it seems to me to ask big questions: what am I, what is the nature of existence, and why am I. When life is swimmingly well, I'm too busy enjoying it to ask those questions. I am very willing admit the correlation of my state of mind, being reflected in the answers (or in this case the lack of answers). None the less, I do feel more in a negative space the deeper I attempt to understand what 'source' perspective would be like.



I found this section of your response very interesting. Sometimes words are a bit limiting to try and relay a concept. What you describe as a "longing, a deep, unfulfillable longing" is exactly what I mean by profound sorrow. To try and understand what it must be like to deal with an infinite longing is real mind-bending and lands me in a saddened and depressed state. Mainly because no matter how many amazing things exist within that source as long as that infinite longing is a part of existence....it doesn't feel like a happy loving perspective.

Your post pointed out something obvious that I really hadn't seen and I thank you for. You pointed out that my state of mind when asking the questions could very well color the possible answers being considered. It is also a reminder to look the fact that those questions do not seem nearly as important to me when I am enjoying life.

SO... maybe the answer is very simple. Don't worry be happy

This spiritual dilemma has been a part of me for many years. It is in part a reason I found dmt (mimosa/rue tea). Unfortunately, to date, I have not had a white light merging experience. My handful of trips (5) have all been extremely rough, harsh even -- but also extremely insightful. I look forward to an experience like your post!

Nice ideas. Man, there are a lot of really good replies to this thread, so far. And while we each experience such highly expansive levels of universal being, quite unique to our perspective, I personally believe that Brahman cannot be sad, lonely, bored, jubilant or perceived in any anthropomorphic way, at all. Being indivisible and limitless, I'm guessing that some things simply are beyond human understanding.

That being said, we rationalize that the insubstantial Spirit initiated quantum fluctuations for some reason or another. What if the Divine doesn't operate for this or that reason? I just don't buy the loneliness angle. I don't scoff at it either, as no one knows for sure.

I really don't see the subject-object aspects of our experience, being applicable to an Omniscient, Universal Being, one without a second. A force transcendent of division, save in the refracted experiences of it's own creation's minds. But that's just my spin on things and I could be totally off base about everything I believe is true. Still, everyone loves a really good mystery, eh?

Honestly, I don't even know if we can assume that curiosity was the original cause. It may well be something along these lines, it may not... but on a far more cosmic, Omniscient level. Sure, when we merge within the field of the Godhead, we likely bring some residual impressions of our human emotions along with us.

In my experiences, which are really are only valid to my own view of things, God/Spirit/Tao/Brahman... is ever conscious love and eternal light. When I have crossed into it's Divine radiance, I have felt the greatest sense of unity and euphoria, of the staggering harmony I was merged/absorbed within.. I admit the blissful euphoria was my own very human reaction to the wonder of such unification, interrelated with all other things, the interconnectedness of Omniversal Being.

It is within my cosmology that The Unified Field of Sacred Being is free of any human limitation or any human traits, whatsoever. What we share in a mirrored kind of symmetry, feels a lot like it is LOVE... but not in the sense of two entities or a group of entities experiencing love conditionally. More of a frequency of an unconditional loving vibration, touching anything able to perceive of it's presence. That's just my belief and I don't think that I am any more correct than any other member of this forum discussion. Who really knows what the supra-intelligent mind of infinite God experiences?

And what I keep contemplating, lo these many years, is this: can unity only understood when one arrives from a level of duality? Does the Divine state even know it is indivisible? You know, how can it have any self-consciousness? We, as seemingly isolated aspects of sentient life, as we know it, surely know the extremes in polarity. Now God... it's so hard to say and be so sure that it is not another silly human concept to project on what is beyond our mortal grasp. For how can the Absolute be considered by relative mortal ideas and socially conditioned, human values?

But you sure have got me thinking tonight. So, what if what we interpret as loneliness, curiosity or even a kind of innate, uninitialized urge to splinter into myriad forms and multiple dimensions... possibly means something else beyond human comprehension, in such a limitless field of supra-consciousness? All I know is that when I have fused my soul into the radiance of the Light of Lights, an all-pervasive Gnosis is notably palpable and certainly seems all embracing.

It seems like an unbound joy in just being itself, to my human sensibilities, not loneliness or the type of unfulfilled emptiness or voidness which would be a form of wanting to be the many, so as to experience itself from a dualistic kaleidoscopic field of uncountable vistas and realities. Food for thought indeed! It's really some of the deepest stuff we can ponder about and contemplate over.

what bla rad black poo house head dirt yes?

what does that mean to you? Does it really hold any more or less meaning that any other string of words one can stack in a row?

It means whatever it mean to you I guess..maybe some will see sorrow..others might see an incoherant person or assume I have turrets..other might think it makes no sense while to another it might be all they needed to hear. The world can be many things.

get it?

There is as much hate as love, as much sorrow as joy etc in the unity.

It is like Wuji-Taiji-Yin-Yang, it all balances out to Zero.

One can dwell on any aspect of it, love, hate, sorrow, joy etc, and be taken with awe and feel overwhelmed by the emotion. It can make you howl in pain, cry tears of joy or scare you. Anything you want actually.

The unity of all things is a part of all things, but it is indivisible from the disunity of all things, one of these is not more or less profound than the other or more or less important.

It leads to profound sorrow and profound joy, but those are indivisible, two aspects of but one thing. To seek one is to find the other etc.




If Time existed on all scales this would be right, but deity lacks emotionality and persona as we have, it does not feel human emotions or think thoughts. There is no origin before or destination after, no design or plan or scheme, no room for boredom or love or hate or sorrow. God has no agenda, no will etc.

We must perhaps be careful, for many conceptions of god are projections of human qualities and emotions, aspects etc, we thus see god as human like, experiencing human thought, having human will, human emotions etc, but none of that is accurate. God doesn't "know" anything, "knowing" is a human trait.

For many God is a tool, and merely having access to a tool or knowing about it is worthless, what matters is how the tool is used. With God you get what you want, be it a state of bliss, a state of sorrow, or anything. Not in a silly way like making a wish, but by the aim of will alone.

Why pity a tool like god?
Why be infatuated with it in a state of bliss?

Make something with it.

Loneliness does not make sense in the context of a singular all-encompassing being in all due honesty.

We experience 'loneliness' as a way to push ourselves towards the opposite sex and reproduce. Humans come in pairs, God stands alone. We experience 'boredom' as an internal stimulus that tells us we are wasting calories and in essence, wasting life which died for us to keep alive, that we are dying yet sitting around and doing nothing about The Great ???.


Very thought-provoking discussion either way. I apologise for my party-pooping input, I do absolutely love the whole "what if if-ness was is-ness really gone far even as want to go do look more like" type of doodaddydebate.



Ultimately however it is not fair to say as a positive affirmation that "God does not feel loneliness or boredom". Because it's the same thing with time. It is beyond time, but it experiences time. It is Timeless but that doesn't mean God exists as a single "instant", an instant "outside" of time. Rather God encompasses time altogether meaning Oneself can be fully immersed into the challenges that time flowing presents, but importantly, remain entirely untouched by it. To be timeless, means that time exists within God. That is the true meaning of timelessness.


Likewise, yes, God is bored, lonely. Happy, sad, loving, afraid, whatever. But again, this is coming from a point of being encompassing the spectrum of emotions. For God to be happy or sad does not change the God-ness of God, which is the most important thing to consider. It is imperishable, undefilable. We will come and go but the substance of I-AM, the liquid clay of light, this cannot be touched. You draw yourself many masks and put them on, but you don't actually have a face of your own




One thing I have realised is that these questions arise only when the mind is clouded by impurities. Smoking spice puts you in the state where you "know it all, see it all". But actually all it really does is temporarily hide the impurities. Impurities create confusion, like neurons miswiring, misfiring. Then the brain tries to figure out why it misfired and it starts a relentless stream of thoughts to tackle the misfire itself. We see these as deep profound philosophical questions, but IME this is merely the brain going "how do I potato?". If you breathe deep and enter the entheogen headspace of your own accord, taking care to actually BREATHE DEEP, as in physically move your diaphragm up and down to the maximal extent and not as a "hey buddy y'all be ok bro" type expression, then these questions dissolve. The crystal clear mind already knows the Is-ness of what Is, it knows the God-ness of God aka itself. It's only cloudiness which presents this 'veil' but even then, you SEE the veil itself but you 'pretend' not to, for that is the very nature of the veil you have created.

A wise perspective indeed. Words to live by imho.

This is quite possibly the greatest thread I have ever encountered.

Every one of you are brilliant.

I feel like the topic at hand is a knot of infinite complexity, and each post here unraveled a useful bit.

I wish I had more to add, but I think I need to reread this thread at least a dozen more times, trip on it, and then maybe I can offer something of equivalent input.

Thanks everyone! I appreciate this very much.

Exactly! I've had my moments of pondering if oneness would equal immense loneliness, but like Global just stated, and from reading other reports of complete union with the white, clear light (I have yet to experience this state), time is irrelevant, as is any sense of the other, so loneliness and boredom wouldn't figure into the singular state.

I too have really appreciated all the input on this topic. It has given me a lot to think about.

One very valid point which has been pointed out in several responses -- the original question of the thread tries to assign very human emotions and perspectives to source/god. This is quite possibly incorrect. However, it is only from a human perspective I can even contemplate what a source is. Perhaps this is similar to a single-celled organism understanding what is is like to be human. Fascinating even if ultimately flawed -- answers unobtainable from this perspective.

I hope to someday have a 'godhead' type dmt experience. Then I get to contemplate if it was an invention of my psyche or profound learning of the true nature of reality.

Great thread Guys!

Here's a head trip for ya........

I am also one of those crazy's who has experienced "God-Mode".

One of the insights I recieved was that life is a fractal hologram. Forever expanding BOTH into the micro and the macro.

There is no reason that this should not apply to God.

Just because you have reached Godhood does not mean that is the be-all end-all of existense.

A fractal technically NEVER ENDS. So why would God end??? Maybe the God we know is nothing but a child in the "next level up". With brother and sister Gods who are playing with colored balls that are universes..........

There is no reason at all to assume that "God" is singular or that there is an END to God.

God is one of many of an extremely advanced race of Beings.

The ladder continues for eternity.....even for God.

What Fun!!!!!!

I personally can hardly wait to get back to the projects I was playing with b4 I took this little vacation on Earth.

Namaste!

-BP